Jun 18, 2013, 7:18 am
Last edit by: iluv2fly
Please read these sources before posting in this thread:If you have calculated the PQDs for a trip at less than 80% of the total cost, you are very likely doing something wrong. Have you made sure to include the International Surcharge (YQ)? Have you read all of the materials linked above, and the frequently made points listed below?
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.FMP (Frequently Made Points)
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):Related Threads
Moderator's Note:- First post from UA Insider (post 1)
- http://www.mileageplusupdates.com/faqs.html
- Additional answers from UA Insider (post 1387)
- more information about questions posed in this thread published to mileageplusupdates.com, per UA Insider
Specific Unanswered Questions
Please limit these to specific, technical questions about the implementation of the PQD program.
- Will there be a calculator that shows PQD, and will that calculator be accurate?
- What exactly will count toward PQD?
United states:
Base fare and carrier-imposed surcharges
Flights flown by United, United Express, or Copa Airlines
Flights operated by a Star Alliance® or a MileagePlus partner airline and issued on a United ticket (ticket number starting with 016)
Economy Plus purchases
will count towards PQD.
Thus:
- The amount of co-pay when using miles to upgrade..
- The cost of PQMs/RDMs purchased when using the premier / award accelerator..
- The value of ETCs (or is it considered a discount from the fare?). (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include) -Note: the Mileage plus site indicates ETC's count towards PQD (12/16/13 imgonnafly)
- The face value e-certs and travel vouchers.. (still uncertainty on this since prelim PQDs appeared to include)
- The cost of a paid upgrade..
- An extra seat purchase (such as for a customer of size or a musical instrument); it does not presently count toward PQM.
- Change fees.
- How will PQD be determined for UA metal segments without 016 stock ticket?
- What happens if I depart in December and return in January?
Just like PQM, PQD for the applicable part of fare for the segment is credited based on the departure date (year) of the segment flown. Segment fares are calculated using standard rules of the past. For the case cited there would be PQD credited in DEC 2013 (no value) and PQD applied to 2014 applicable to 2014 and 2015 status renewal. - How will UA evaluate the address issue for the PQD exemption?
- It is not clear how the timing of achieving the minimum PQD requirement will impact earning RPUs and GPUs. Examples:
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- Do only 1Ks/GSs earn additional RPUs by flying beyond the 100k mark?
- If a 1K crosses the 100,000 PQM mark in January 201x, the $10,000 PQD mark on December 31 201x, and ends up flying a total of 200,000 PQMs for the year 201x, how many RPUs / GPUs will be earned?
- Will Platinums earn 2 RPUs when crossing the 75k mark but none at incremental levels thereafter (e.g. a Plat who flies 100k EQMs, but does not meet the 1K spend, would *not* earn two more RPUs)?
- If someone crosses 75K PQM in say April, but doesn't hit $7500 PQD until December by which time has accrued 200K PQM, will he/she get 10 RPUs all at once? (and 10 GPUs assuming $10k PQD in December)
- How does IRROPs affect earning of PQDs?
The following points have been made repeatedly in this thread (please feel free to add more concise points):
- You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
- It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "leisure 1Ks" and people on the edge of categories.
- Presidential Plus card members (exempted from Silver/Gold/Plat PQD requirements) are most likely exempted because the FlexPQM program would complicate matters.
- Manufacturing $25,000 spend might not actually be so hard. There's a whole forum on it.
- The exceptions don't really make sense where there is a revenue-sharing joint venture in place, such as with LH on TATL routes.
- Leaving UA for AA over objections to dollar-based status may be futile because all the majors will likely go to this model with the possible exception of the AS program which allows you to bank your DL and AA miles into one account (DL has already).
- UA is tracking spend on UA metal now.
- YQ, also known as the "international surcharge," is a carrier-imposed surcharge and is included in PQD.
2014 version of this thread can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1536552-mileageplus-premier-qualifying-dollar-pqd-requirement-discussion-thread-2014-a-15.html
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
MileagePlus Premier Qualifying Dollar (PQD) Requirement Discussion [ARCHIVE]
Jun 20, 2013, 4:31 am
#1546
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,893
Ok, I'm not a MP member, so maybe I'm way off on this idea, but seems to me there's an easy way to balance the desire to make the benefits more attractive to the best customers who spend a lot and still allow the current benefits to those who don't spend enough to make these newly imposed limits.
How about just keeping everything the way it is, but adding a '+' designator to each status level for those who spend above whatever the dollar amount threshold is? If you're a +, you get priority over someone who's not. That way the fact that there's an overabundance of elites doesn't matter to the big spenders, because they'll have first priority. If you spend double the threshold, you get a '++' designator, which trumps single +'s. If you get enough +'s, say 3 or 4, you get promoted to the next level. That way some of those who don't fly many miles, but spend a lot still can get status. And it doesn't require any big changes to the program to get the desired results by UA and by the FFP members.
How about just keeping everything the way it is, but adding a '+' designator to each status level for those who spend above whatever the dollar amount threshold is? If you're a +, you get priority over someone who's not. That way the fact that there's an overabundance of elites doesn't matter to the big spenders, because they'll have first priority. If you spend double the threshold, you get a '++' designator, which trumps single +'s. If you get enough +'s, say 3 or 4, you get promoted to the next level. That way some of those who don't fly many miles, but spend a lot still can get status. And it doesn't require any big changes to the program to get the desired results by UA and by the FFP members.
Jun 20, 2013, 4:45 am
#1547
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: United Premier 1K 1MM; AA Plat Pro; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Platinum; Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,529
This chain, as expected, has gotten very long and there are lots of different topics addressed. However, I haven't seen this issue discussed much here.
My question is I don't see and United has not addressed how this change will address the core problem that United has right now as a company. In other forums it's been noted that the PRASM figures for United are not good and continue to indicate that HVFs have not come back to the airline. It would seem to me that a major change like this to the MileagePlus program would be aimed at getting back those HVFs but I don't see how this spend requirement would entice an HVF to come back. The issue, and I think many of us agree, is that service and the product need to improve.
So I guess I don't see how this change addresses United's core problem in "making money". Further, there is no evidence that the product and service will improve as a result of these changes.
My question is I don't see and United has not addressed how this change will address the core problem that United has right now as a company. In other forums it's been noted that the PRASM figures for United are not good and continue to indicate that HVFs have not come back to the airline. It would seem to me that a major change like this to the MileagePlus program would be aimed at getting back those HVFs but I don't see how this spend requirement would entice an HVF to come back. The issue, and I think many of us agree, is that service and the product need to improve.
So I guess I don't see how this change addresses United's core problem in "making money". Further, there is no evidence that the product and service will improve as a result of these changes.
Jun 20, 2013, 4:49 am
#1548
Suspended
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Just outside Big D, or many other places in big metal tubes
Programs: WN Rpd.Rwrds, AA, was longtime CO very top Elite tier, Overentitled UA Lifetime 1K (since 2012)
Posts: 1,334
This chain, as expected, has gotten very long and there are lots of different topics addressed. However, I haven't seen this issue discussed much here.
My question is I don't see and United has not addressed how this change will address the core problem that United has right now as a company. In other forums it's been noted that the PRASM figures for United are not good and continue to indicate that HVFs have not come back to the airline. It would seem to me that a major change like this to the MileagePlus program would be aimed at getting back those HVFs but I don't see how this spend requirement would entice an HVF to come back. The issue, and I think many of us agree, is that service and the product need to improve.
So I guess I don't see how this change addresses United's core problem in "making money". Further, there is no evidence that the product and service will improve as a result of these changes.
My question is I don't see and United has not addressed how this change will address the core problem that United has right now as a company. In other forums it's been noted that the PRASM figures for United are not good and continue to indicate that HVFs have not come back to the airline. It would seem to me that a major change like this to the MileagePlus program would be aimed at getting back those HVFs but I don't see how this spend requirement would entice an HVF to come back. The issue, and I think many of us agree, is that service and the product need to improve.
So I guess I don't see how this change addresses United's core problem in "making money". Further, there is no evidence that the product and service will improve as a result of these changes.
Last edited by FlyinHawaiian; Jun 20, 2013 at 5:12 am Reason: multi-quote
Jun 20, 2013, 5:22 am
#1549
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
Perhaps, when he does, he should be told "what have you done for me lately" and leave with downgraded benefits. I wonder how he would feel?
Jun 20, 2013, 5:27 am
#1550
Join Date: Apr 2006
Programs: CO Plat, HH Plat, CO Presidents Club
Posts: 35
I wonder how much cooperation I'll get through my company travel agency to always look for 016 tix...
Last edited by kbogie; Jun 20, 2013 at 5:34 am
Jun 20, 2013, 5:34 am
#1551
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Programs: UA 1K (1MM), AA P, Marriott PP (LT PP), SPG P (LT P), HH G, and Hertz PC
Posts: 129
Jun 20, 2013, 5:38 am
#1552
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
My question is I don't see and United has not addressed how this change will address the core problem that United has right now as a company. In other forums it's been noted that the PRASM figures for United are not good and continue to indicate that HVFs have not come back to the airline. It would seem to me that a major change like this to the MileagePlus program would be aimed at getting back those HVFs but I don't see how this spend requirement would entice an HVF to come back. The issue, and I think many of us agree, is that service and the product need to improve.
So I guess I don't see how this change addresses United's core problem in "making money". Further, there is no evidence that the product and service will improve as a result of these changes.
I think that you have hit the nail on the head. Add the lack of appreciation for flyers who have remained loyal through it all, and you have got one of the main concerns expressed in this forum thread.
I believe that most of people who have expressed concerns here are sincere. After all, we have chosen to fly United, Continental, or CO dba UA, and we want to see the airline thrive and be there for us in the long term.
There is so much tied up in this thread: business, airline, long history of frequent flyer programs, loyalty, customer service, bankruptcy, finances, ticket fares, common sense, wishful thinking - I could go on.
In short, we may not own shares of CO dba UA, but we have invested much of our time and fortune in this airline. We do have a stake. Why can't the current management see that?
Jun 20, 2013, 5:49 am
#1553
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London
Programs: UA GS
Posts: 2,438
People in this thread keep equating the entire program with elite status. The vast majority of my friends are loyal to a particular airline simply because they are "saving up" for earning free travel and never ever expect to earn elite status. Obviously that does not apply to most of the people posting here, but most people don't expect to earn elite status at all (that's why it's supposed to be "elite"!)
United is changing the definition of who they consider elite. That's it. By some of the comments on here I wonder why you even bother with elite status. So you fly 5 transcons a year and qualify for Silver after spending $1500? What are you looking to get out of these 10 flights? United charges around $80 for E+ on a typical EWR-SFO flight, so they can sell those seats for $800 otherwise. Beyond that this is 10 experiences where you may have to board a bit later. They let you board earlier and get slightly-faster security and free luggage by getting a credit card, and heck you can even get out of the requirement altogether if you spend enough.
I don't blame them one bit for saying it's no longer worth it to them to give you extra RDM, faster boarding, free luggage, potential upgrades to first class, free E+, etc after you've spent around 5-6 CPM or even less. Not to mention every year you do this they're ALSO giving you 25000+ RDM which is enough for a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48.
I understand why people are disappointed that United is taking away something they've come to expect, but they ARE a business, and one that historically hasn't done so well. Rewarding people who aren't helping them return to profitability hasn't helped so far so I understand why they want to try something else.
United is changing the definition of who they consider elite. That's it. By some of the comments on here I wonder why you even bother with elite status. So you fly 5 transcons a year and qualify for Silver after spending $1500? What are you looking to get out of these 10 flights? United charges around $80 for E+ on a typical EWR-SFO flight, so they can sell those seats for $800 otherwise. Beyond that this is 10 experiences where you may have to board a bit later. They let you board earlier and get slightly-faster security and free luggage by getting a credit card, and heck you can even get out of the requirement altogether if you spend enough.
I don't blame them one bit for saying it's no longer worth it to them to give you extra RDM, faster boarding, free luggage, potential upgrades to first class, free E+, etc after you've spent around 5-6 CPM or even less. Not to mention every year you do this they're ALSO giving you 25000+ RDM which is enough for a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48.
I understand why people are disappointed that United is taking away something they've come to expect, but they ARE a business, and one that historically hasn't done so well. Rewarding people who aren't helping them return to profitability hasn't helped so far so I understand why they want to try something else.
Jun 20, 2013, 5:51 am
#1554
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA, AA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 86
Maybe they do see it and expect you, like a wife in an abusive relationship, to stick around no matter what they do. You stuck around through benefit devaluations, you stuck around through getting your upgrades denied due to tods, you stuck around as service fell to the worst in the industry. Now you`ll stick around and pay them more.
Jun 20, 2013, 6:04 am
#1555
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NYC and SFO
Programs: UA 1MM (former 1K, Delta Platinum))
Posts: 1,244
FMP (Frequently Made Points)
You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "MR cheaters" and people on the edge of categories.
You might not be hitting the PQD minimums as easily as you think you are, given exceptions, taxes, and the existence of cheap fares.
It is possible for leisure travelers and even some business travelers to average well under 10cpm. This doesn't just affect "MR cheaters" and people on the edge of categories.
If I perceive enough value to 1K going forward, I'll buy expensive summer tickets to Europe or Asia to make up the spend. Better than a W fare if necessary, and now a reason one didn't "waste" the fare if the GPU doesn't clear.
Jun 20, 2013, 6:09 am
#1556
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: MFR
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,885
People in this thread keep equating the entire program with elite status. The vast majority of my friends are loyal to a particular airline simply because they are "saving up" for earning free travel and never ever expect to earn elite status. Obviously that does not apply to most of the people posting here, but most people don't expect to earn elite status at all (that's why it's supposed to be "elite"!)
United is changing the definition of who they consider elite. That's it. By some of the comments on here I wonder why you even bother with elite status. So you fly 5 transcons a year and qualify for Silver after spending $1500? What are you looking to get out of these 10 flights? United charges around $80 for E+ on a typical EWR-SFO flight, so they can sell those seats for $800 otherwise. Beyond that this is 10 experiences where you may have to board a bit later. They let you board earlier and get slightly-faster security and free luggage by getting a credit card, and heck you can even get out of the requirement altogether if you spend enough.
I don't blame them one bit for saying it's no longer worth it to them to give you extra RDM, faster boarding, free luggage, potential upgrades to first class, free E+, etc after you've spent around 5-6 CPM or even less. Not to mention every year you do this they're ALSO giving you 25000+ RDM which is enough for a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48.
I understand why people are disappointed that United is taking away something they've come to expect, but they ARE a business, and one that historically hasn't done so well. Rewarding people who aren't helping them return to profitability hasn't helped so far so I understand why they want to try something else.
United is changing the definition of who they consider elite. That's it. By some of the comments on here I wonder why you even bother with elite status. So you fly 5 transcons a year and qualify for Silver after spending $1500? What are you looking to get out of these 10 flights? United charges around $80 for E+ on a typical EWR-SFO flight, so they can sell those seats for $800 otherwise. Beyond that this is 10 experiences where you may have to board a bit later. They let you board earlier and get slightly-faster security and free luggage by getting a credit card, and heck you can even get out of the requirement altogether if you spend enough.
I don't blame them one bit for saying it's no longer worth it to them to give you extra RDM, faster boarding, free luggage, potential upgrades to first class, free E+, etc after you've spent around 5-6 CPM or even less. Not to mention every year you do this they're ALSO giving you 25000+ RDM which is enough for a free ticket anywhere in the lower 48.
I understand why people are disappointed that United is taking away something they've come to expect, but they ARE a business, and one that historically hasn't done so well. Rewarding people who aren't helping them return to profitability hasn't helped so far so I understand why they want to try something else.
Jun 20, 2013, 6:09 am
#1557
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Always on the move
Programs: Something lifetime here and there
Posts: 1,867
I would hope (if they did this), they would have records of the $$$$'s paid along with the associated mileage (including the bonuses) on this as my cpm (across all UA flying) would be north of 25.
Jun 20, 2013, 6:37 am
#1558
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,138
For those who say, "But but but WN went to a revenue-based loyalty program!" I would point out that WN has not increased their change fees, added bag check fees, etc., which UA has done alongside adding revenue requirements.
Jun 20, 2013, 6:42 am
#1559
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,271
so by the end of the month I will be getting 1K at 101456 PQM with 46 PQS.
That includes 1385mi of bonus mi for Y bookings, not sure if we get a bonus on PQD if in Y.
My total spending (base fare + YQ) is $10143, $10293 if change fees count as carrier imposed fees (which they should).
Now, I'm not sure how use of travel vouchers counts with PQD. I used $350 worth of travel vouchers and if they are subtracted from PQD, I'd be down to $9943. It doesn't seem fair to subtract the entire value since some of it goes towards taxes/fees.
Either way, I'm one of those people right on the edge.
That includes 1385mi of bonus mi for Y bookings, not sure if we get a bonus on PQD if in Y.
My total spending (base fare + YQ) is $10143, $10293 if change fees count as carrier imposed fees (which they should).
Now, I'm not sure how use of travel vouchers counts with PQD. I used $350 worth of travel vouchers and if they are subtracted from PQD, I'd be down to $9943. It doesn't seem fair to subtract the entire value since some of it goes towards taxes/fees.
Either way, I'm one of those people right on the edge.
Jun 20, 2013, 6:42 am
#1560
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: IL USA
Programs: UA 1.55MM Lifetime Premier Gold, AA Exec. Plt., NW MM(875K on DL), MC Gold, HH Diamond, SPG, HY GP
Posts: 205
Maybe they do see it and expect you, like a wife in an abusive relationship, to stick around no matter what they do. You stuck around through benefit devaluations, you stuck around through getting your upgrades denied due to tods, you stuck around as service fell to the worst in the industry. Now you`ll stick around and pay them more.