"Expert Mode" Changes
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:15 pm
#571
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 522
Hi njcommodore, I was going to post just this as a reminder this morning, but, you've beaten me to it. I don't expect everyone here will believe me, but, the intent was not to take away the ability to see if upgrade space is available or not when purchasing. This is valuable information. Checking the "MileagePlus Upgrade Award" box on the advance search page isn't the most intuitive way we can do this, but, it is the current way to get to this information when booking.
Shannon
Shannon
2. How long before United disables this work around too?
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:18 pm
#572
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SFO (formerly IAH)
Programs: UAL Plat, 2+MM, AA Plat, SPG Lifetime Plat
Posts: 119
Almost impossible to sound any more angry or stupified as has already been expressed by fellow FT forum-mates. Removal of R and other award availability details is a proactive takeaway directed at UA's most frequent and technically loyal customers - made more insulting by a comical explanation as to why.
My only sense of hope is (at least under pre-Smisek administrations) that such LITERALLY universal comdemnation has in some cases been met with a reversal of position. Not sure on this one....but trying (TRYING) to stay positive.....
The material impact on my flight planning can't be underestimated.
Just stunned.
My only sense of hope is (at least under pre-Smisek administrations) that such LITERALLY universal comdemnation has in some cases been met with a reversal of position. Not sure on this one....but trying (TRYING) to stay positive.....
The material impact on my flight planning can't be underestimated.
Just stunned.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:24 pm
#573
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 275
BUT, any communication that has to include the phrase "I don't expect everyone here will believe me" to a group of people that includes customers that like me spend $50-60K per year, and a whole lot more who are spending $20-30K per year, says that you are doing MAJOR MAJOR damage to the brand.
At the point you are right, very few folks beleive anything that UA has to say. You did not make these decissions, but they were made, and now UA is at a place where its best customers don't believe what UA has to say.
At the point you are right, very few folks beleive anything that UA has to say. You did not make these decissions, but they were made, and now UA is at a place where its best customers don't believe what UA has to say.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:24 pm
#574
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: LAX
Posts: 177
Yet another thoroughly disappointing and unwelcome change.
Each new announcement makes it seem like "merger" and "integration" are just jargon for "removing features, functionality, and customer service."
United, stop acting like a cut-rate budget carrier that charges top dollar for its "services". Forget Delta or American, Southwest and Frontier are starting to look attractive compared to your airline.
Each new announcement makes it seem like "merger" and "integration" are just jargon for "removing features, functionality, and customer service."
United, stop acting like a cut-rate budget carrier that charges top dollar for its "services". Forget Delta or American, Southwest and Frontier are starting to look attractive compared to your airline.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:29 pm
#575
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: AA Platinum Pro, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Exploralist, Marriot Silver
Posts: 2,068
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:32 pm
#576
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Not there
Programs: Sirius Cybernetics Corporation
Posts: 1,609
Power Users
Because I'm sure it's the Kayakers that are abusing the system? Don't think so. The uneducated flyer doesn't know squat about figuring out options. They don't even know what the options are, aside from whatever they learn from D Barrett's commercials.
Seriously, this has to be aimed at the power user. That's US. To United, we are the problem. We are the people that they're thinking have just enough information to be really dangerous, and they're thinking maybe if they cut us off, we'll have less to hassle them about. We can't micro-manage our itineraries (and from United's perspective, that's exactly what we're doing... micro-managing things in a way they incorrectly see as abusive while we see as trying to get United to give us the benefits they say we have).
Seriously, this has to be aimed at the power user. That's US. To United, we are the problem. We are the people that they're thinking have just enough information to be really dangerous, and they're thinking maybe if they cut us off, we'll have less to hassle them about. We can't micro-manage our itineraries (and from United's perspective, that's exactly what we're doing... micro-managing things in a way they incorrectly see as abusive while we see as trying to get United to give us the benefits they say we have).
Many of us were power users before the advent of FF programs and honed our customer skills during various phases:Stickers/Paper, Alliance/Partners, Internet/E-Ticket, Alliance/Web/E-Cert-Upgrade.
I recall a number of quotes from industry execs and pundits over the years citing the FF programs as having saved the airlines during the age of deregulation with the emergence of hubs, code shares, and mainline branded regional carriers.
What happens when a major carrier pulls the plug on the FF subsidy? Can such a business model exist today? Is this part of a great experiment or a delusional management action?
I seriously doubt UA can survive in its current business model w/o an attractive FF program with all the benefits expected of the modern/savvy/well informed-read traveler (AKA: THE CUSTOMER).
However, I wonder if it is possible for an airline with UA's configuration (Intl/Dom/Regional/Hubs/Alliance) to reinvent itself with a FF program that offers a basic 10% rebate in discounts vice all the complex instruments.
Frankly, I do not think it's possible without a business model that places a priority on high quality, reliable, and transparent service. That is something UA has not been able to accomplish in the last 30 years. I believe UA has become a marketing company with a business model build around advertising - perhaps hoping for some google/disney like pixie dust to raise them up to the promised land of profitability.
Food for thought...
V/r,
-Cyborg
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:32 pm
#577
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: Various between 2p & 1K, currently Gold
Posts: 8,889
The worst aspects of rebates & lotteries put together
The airlines must wish they could go back to that world, but ironically, it was the airlines themselves that destroyed that world by deciding not to allow travel agents to participate in the profits... which they did by opening up the information portals directly to the public, so people could book directly with the airline, saving a lot of money in fees previously paid to travel agents.
Today? The airlines want to turn the clock back in a way, removing information that used to be available to the consumer so they can charge more or offer fewer benefits. You offer something that looks great but people have to jump through hoops to get it, if it's available at all.
Restricting the information needed to take advantage of the opportunities is like combining the worst aspects of rebates and lotteries.
Apple
Microsoft
Novell
Microsoft's not a bad place to be. Where is United?
Last edited by Mike Jacoubowsky; Sep 8, 2012 at 12:41 pm Reason: merge
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:33 pm
#578
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
I really believe this is yet another sign that their IT (at the very least how it is reflected in the web site) is in horrible shape. I don't feel it's a conspiracy, but frankly feel it is ineptitude compared to what I was used to with pre-merger United. This is not meant as CO bashing per-se, as I know it's gotten worse for CO flyers compared to what they were used to...just in different ways. But it is definitely IT department bashing.
I have had 3 instances in the last month where data about flights has been widely conflicting....
1. Attempt to change a flight YUL->ORD last week online. Minimal charge for the change was $225 (+$150 change fee). However, expert mode showed availability in my booked class, so it should have been no charge. Called in and they were able to easily book me at no extra charge and just the change fees.
2. Attempt to book a flight online LAX->ORD->LAX. Priced at $995RT. I did not select a ticket, but opened up another browser, entered same info and got a RT price of $785. Redid search on original browser once -- $995. Searched again -- $785. Expert mode showed a minimum of 4 seats in each fare class that had tickets (checked in yet another browser). Tried again in two hours and had similar results. What would cause this? I wasn't logged in on either browswer.
3. Booked flight ORD->LAX and used a CPU, since expert mode showed availability. Upon booking, wasn't upgraded but put on wait list. Called and was easily upgraded -- agent was surprised I wasn't upgraded automatically.
So basically, I'm calling all the time now to double check things.
On top of this, my upgrade percentage has gone from 95% to 0% since June, flying the same routes (and flights) between ORD and LAX. Something definitely changed during that time period to cause my priority to drop for some reason...or the rules changed. Up until that time I hadn't experienced much of a change from last year. But man...it's really different now.
Anyway-- I'm sure that agents have been getting questioned regarding what we see on the site in expert mode. pmCO agents probably aren't used to it -- and pmUA are. But on top of this, if the information being shown to us is incorrect or incomplete (like I think it is)...that would be a reason to remove it for now until it's fixed.
Just a hypothesis, but my gut is that the info that is being displayed for us is wrong...and that's what's really causing the problem. I've certainly seen it on my end...
I have had 3 instances in the last month where data about flights has been widely conflicting....
1. Attempt to change a flight YUL->ORD last week online. Minimal charge for the change was $225 (+$150 change fee). However, expert mode showed availability in my booked class, so it should have been no charge. Called in and they were able to easily book me at no extra charge and just the change fees.
2. Attempt to book a flight online LAX->ORD->LAX. Priced at $995RT. I did not select a ticket, but opened up another browser, entered same info and got a RT price of $785. Redid search on original browser once -- $995. Searched again -- $785. Expert mode showed a minimum of 4 seats in each fare class that had tickets (checked in yet another browser). Tried again in two hours and had similar results. What would cause this? I wasn't logged in on either browswer.
3. Booked flight ORD->LAX and used a CPU, since expert mode showed availability. Upon booking, wasn't upgraded but put on wait list. Called and was easily upgraded -- agent was surprised I wasn't upgraded automatically.
So basically, I'm calling all the time now to double check things.
On top of this, my upgrade percentage has gone from 95% to 0% since June, flying the same routes (and flights) between ORD and LAX. Something definitely changed during that time period to cause my priority to drop for some reason...or the rules changed. Up until that time I hadn't experienced much of a change from last year. But man...it's really different now.
Anyway-- I'm sure that agents have been getting questioned regarding what we see on the site in expert mode. pmCO agents probably aren't used to it -- and pmUA are. But on top of this, if the information being shown to us is incorrect or incomplete (like I think it is)...that would be a reason to remove it for now until it's fixed.
Just a hypothesis, but my gut is that the info that is being displayed for us is wrong...and that's what's really causing the problem. I've certainly seen it on my end...
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:33 pm
#579
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
A year ago, AA removed the UDU/sticker upgrade inventory from view on all channels, including Expert Flyer, and there was much knashing of teeth on the AA forum.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:34 pm
#580
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,324
Look, I liked the transparent fare buckets, especially being able to see the R availability. But I understand why they did it.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:35 pm
#581
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Over-entitled UA 1PMM; JetSmarter; HHonors Gold
Posts: 9,723
This doesn't really affect me since I've moved all of my business away from UA. This is another example of why. United used to listen to its loyal customers. The management team that is in place right now has got to go. They are simply a disaster. Unfortunately, it will take another year for the effect to really show, and by then the management will have their bonuses and move on, leaving a crippled shell of a company it their wake.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:38 pm
#582
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: UA 1K 2MM
Posts: 1,377
Just booked a flight today and was confused as to why I couldn't see the buckets as I hadn't read FT since Friday AM. Without the info I needed to make a decision, I opted instead for a ticket on Delta. What are you thinking UA?
Last edited by mander; Sep 8, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:40 pm
#583
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ACT/GRK/DAL/ABI/MIA/FLL
Programs: OMNIArchist, OMNIArchy!, OMNIIDGAS
Posts: 23,478
keep thinking that, just keep it up.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:41 pm
#584
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist, Virtuoso Travel Agent, Commercial Pilot
Posts: 2,173
Award availability is not available to GDS subscribers. EF uses the GDS for revenue fare availability, but uses other means to obtain award availability.
The point is moot anyway though--as of this morning, EF has pulled UA award and upgrade availability.
The point is moot anyway though--as of this morning, EF has pulled UA award and upgrade availability.
Sep 8, 2012 | 12:41 pm
#585
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Programs: UA-1mm, 1/31/26 last day as 1k since 2009, Marriott-LT Platinum, Hertz-Presidents Circle
Posts: 6,367
KVS has found a reasonably good solution thus far. Glad they got to work on this quickly. I am up for renewal in 3 weeks thus they could earn my business here if this proves valuable.