Should passengers refuse UA VDB offers in order to maximize oversale compensation?
Jul 2, 2012, 10:39 am
#16
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With PMUA you also got the benefit of rebooking into Y or even F if you were lucky, which helped with requalification. 3000 extra eqm and $800 is a different proposition to just $800.
Jul 2, 2012, 10:39 am
#17
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Jul 2, 2012, 10:44 am
#18
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1. Overbooking is a recognized and accepted business practice. It's here to stay.
2. When there's not a seat for someone, it is best to let pax self-select who gets bumped. IDB is based on fare paid, so it means someone on an award or el cheapo ticket is the likely loser while someone in paid premium or paid Y/B stays on. But, maybe one of the latter is in no hurry to get home and the guy in the el cheapo seat is. Why not let the Y pax take the bump and the el cheapo get home? There are then 2 happy pax and a happy air carrier.
3. Flights need to leave on time. So, the VDB process is quick and efficient. It's not always fair. Sometimes pax can't make up their mind quickly and sometimes there just being jerks. Takes all sorts.
4. Yes, it's often more expensive to IDB than to VDB, but not always. Often the carrier can rebook on another alliance / carrier and get the IDB pax home within an hour or two of original time. Means somehwere from $0 to minor comp. But, the VDB frees up the seat for a better opportunity the next day.
5. Can never tell whether $800 is a lot or a little. I can work almost anywhere with a broadband connection so $800 + hotel is a gift. Next guy may have mission critical meeting the next day, so doesn't matter whether he's offered $800 or $8K.
What OP fails to grasp is that this is a business deal, nothing more and nothing less. Air carriers don't actually feel pain (try poking one and see if it screams). Individuals are also individuals. OP can wait in his seat when the offer is made. Bet you there's 50 people running to the podium while he's writing his post.
Jul 2, 2012, 10:51 am
#20
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Unlike when I flew SFO-NRT and ICN-SFO last March, I was not in C for this flight. I was, however, in an E+ window seat. Would you risk getting stuck in a middle seat in E- for an $800 voucher? Or does COdbaUA typically give you a seat AT LEAST as good as the seat you gave up on the next flight?
I don't care what they typically do, I care what they will do in this one particular instance.
Jul 2, 2012, 10:52 am
#21
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I think the OP has some sort of a point with respect to the collective bargaining aspect.
If, for example, everyone started by pledging not to take any $200 VDBs except for the smallest of delays, that may get the airline to up the ante a bit.
I know I won't take $200 unless the delay is relatively minor (<= 2 hours) and they can retain or improve my seat quality.
If, for example, everyone started by pledging not to take any $200 VDBs except for the smallest of delays, that may get the airline to up the ante a bit.
I know I won't take $200 unless the delay is relatively minor (<= 2 hours) and they can retain or improve my seat quality.
Jul 2, 2012, 10:52 am
#22
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I was on an oversold LHR-SFO flight last week, and they were "looking for volunteers" whom they promised an overnight stay at LHR + $800 travel voucher. I initially volunteered, but soon after reversed course. I figure all passengers should make it hurt AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE if the airline's going to overbook. And by that I mean, NOBODY should volunteer, which should force the airline INVOLUNTARILY bump somebody who will then get a lot more than just an $800 travel voucher.
Nobody else is paying for my travel, so any VDB vouchers I get just go towards reducing the money I spend out of pocket.This was never guaranteed; it often happened (or could be negotiated as part of the bump) if the GA was trying to hurry. I had at least one case where the GA had time and rebooked me with an M fare and I'm pretty sure fastair has mentioned getting originally ticketed inventory buckets opened up to rebook people.
Jul 2, 2012, 11:23 am
#23
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I think the OP has some sort of a point with respect to the collective bargaining aspect.
If, for example, everyone started by pledging not to take any $200 VDBs except for the smallest of delays, that may get the airline to up the ante a bit.
I know I won't take $200 unless the delay is relatively minor (<= 2 hours) and they can retain or improve my seat quality.
If, for example, everyone started by pledging not to take any $200 VDBs except for the smallest of delays, that may get the airline to up the ante a bit.
I know I won't take $200 unless the delay is relatively minor (<= 2 hours) and they can retain or improve my seat quality.
Jul 2, 2012, 11:51 am
#24
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You'll always have people not angry w UA ready to take the $800. Kettles, people that don't normally fly UA ............ME! (guess that makes me a customer SCAB
Jul 2, 2012, 11:59 am
#25
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How would you get all of the other pax to agree not to take less than $X for the VDB. And, let's just assume that you could pull this rabbit out of a hat. That mean that I've sat on my hands and declined $200 so you can get $300. In other words, if there's one seat needed, all volunteers except one are "losers." Who would you pick as the loser?
I think the point is if there were enough support gathered for people to support firm according to a basic minimum, it would eventually cost them more that they'd be more generous.
To some extent, the free market works that way. I've seen plenty of people come up for the low money just to walk away when they realize what the protection entails.
Jul 2, 2012, 12:14 pm
#26
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The point is to extract as much possible from the airline as a group, and THEN sort out who gets what. Like this:
1. NOBODY volunteers.
2. Airline is forced to bump passengers involuntarily. Bumped passengers demand cash from the airline.
3. If the bumped passengers want to stay overnight, they just got $1300, not as a stupid travel voucher, but in CASH. If they don't or can't, then they should start making offers to other passengers who CAN get off the flight. Basically, turn around and begin paying people to get out of your way, using the cash that the airline just gave you.
4. Given that the bumped passengers are holding more in CASH than the airline was offering in stupid VOUCHERS, they can probably get SOMEONE to bite. Say someone bits for $800 cash. Great, the pax who wants to be on the flight pays him or her $800* and pockets the remaining $500.
* The pax who now must reschedule the flight would likely be subject to a change fee, unless he or she is an elite. But still, the increased amount of cash being thrown around should more than pay for all of these fees.
1. NOBODY volunteers.
2. Airline is forced to bump passengers involuntarily. Bumped passengers demand cash from the airline.
3. If the bumped passengers want to stay overnight, they just got $1300, not as a stupid travel voucher, but in CASH. If they don't or can't, then they should start making offers to other passengers who CAN get off the flight. Basically, turn around and begin paying people to get out of your way, using the cash that the airline just gave you.
4. Given that the bumped passengers are holding more in CASH than the airline was offering in stupid VOUCHERS, they can probably get SOMEONE to bite. Say someone bits for $800 cash. Great, the pax who wants to be on the flight pays him or her $800* and pockets the remaining $500.
* The pax who now must reschedule the flight would likely be subject to a change fee, unless he or she is an elite. But still, the increased amount of cash being thrown around should more than pay for all of these fees.
*Also* also, how do you think the IDB "cash" compensation process works? You think the GA reaches down and pulls out $1300 in bills, on the spot, to hand over to the IDBed passenger *before the flight even leaves*?
Anyway, basic game theory tells me that your idea is completely untenable even if it *were* guaranteed that you'd be able to swap the IDB.
Jul 2, 2012, 12:17 pm
#27
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Well the OP is on his own as far as I'm concerned. I HAVE taken the $800, overnight hotel & protected C seat the next day from LHR. My one regret is not doing it the next day when it was offered, as I thought I really needed to get back.
Can't speak for the new United, but under the old United, LHR was actually the most organized re: the bumps, $800, etc.
Cheers.
Can't speak for the new United, but under the old United, LHR was actually the most organized re: the bumps, $800, etc.
Cheers.
Jul 2, 2012, 12:29 pm
#28
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What is the practice now?
[QUOTE=PHLGovFlyer;18852451]There's nothing wrong with oversales and VDBs so long as they are done right. IMO that means a transparent process where anyone can get on any VDB list at any airport, elites get prioritized over GMs for selection, QUOTE]
Is it first come first serve in terms of volunteering, or would a 1K get moved ahead of a silver for instance even if the silver volunteered 10 min prior?
Is it first come first serve in terms of volunteering, or would a 1K get moved ahead of a silver for instance even if the silver volunteered 10 min prior?
Jul 2, 2012, 12:36 pm
#29
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Jul 2, 2012, 12:46 pm
#30
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The point is to extract as much possible from the airline as a group, and THEN sort out who gets what. Like this:
1. NOBODY volunteers.
2. Airline is forced to bump passengers involuntarily. Bumped passengers demand cash from the airline.
3. If the bumped passengers want to stay overnight, they just got $1300, not as a stupid travel voucher, but in CASH. If they don't or can't, then they should start making offers to other passengers who CAN get off the flight. Basically, turn around and begin paying people to get out of your way, using the cash that the airline just gave you.
4. Given that the bumped passengers are holding more in CASH than the airline was offering in stupid VOUCHERS, they can probably get SOMEONE to bite. Say someone bits for $800 cash. Great, the pax who wants to be on the flight pays him or her $800* and pockets the remaining $500.
* The pax who now must reschedule the flight would likely be subject to a change fee, unless he or she is an elite. But still, the increased amount of cash being thrown around should more than pay for all of these fees.
1. NOBODY volunteers.
2. Airline is forced to bump passengers involuntarily. Bumped passengers demand cash from the airline.
3. If the bumped passengers want to stay overnight, they just got $1300, not as a stupid travel voucher, but in CASH. If they don't or can't, then they should start making offers to other passengers who CAN get off the flight. Basically, turn around and begin paying people to get out of your way, using the cash that the airline just gave you.
4. Given that the bumped passengers are holding more in CASH than the airline was offering in stupid VOUCHERS, they can probably get SOMEONE to bite. Say someone bits for $800 cash. Great, the pax who wants to be on the flight pays him or her $800* and pockets the remaining $500.
* The pax who now must reschedule the flight would likely be subject to a change fee, unless he or she is an elite. But still, the increased amount of cash being thrown around should more than pay for all of these fees.
MBA's like to make money.
Economists like to talk about making money.
And lawyers... (oh well, never mind.)
Last edited by hobo13; Jul 2, 2012 at 12:58 pm