Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
PLEASE READ FIRST: WIKIPOST and MODERATOR NOTE
MODERATOR NOTE:
Please note: Insensitive or attacking posts, discussion about other posters and their motives, and other off-topic posts/comments are not allowed, per FlyerTalk Rules.
--> If you have a question or comment about moderation, use the "Alert a Moderator" button
left of every post, or send a PM. Do not post such comments/questions on-thread. Thank you.
N.B. Please do not alter the above message.
--> If you have a question or comment about moderation, use the "Alert a Moderator" button
left of every post, or send a PM. Do not post such comments/questions on-thread. Thank you. N.B. Please do not alter the above message.
• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
Jun 7, 2012, 10:28 pm
#271
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,911
Still 35K is hardly a life changing event given that one CC bonus is 50K these days. Yes it was better before but it's not that dramatic given that UA miles are fairly easy to redeem at low levels.
As for MM topic - I bet almost all these complainers get more upgrades now with UDU than they ever had with 2 annual CR1s. Perhaps UA should give CR1s back but permanently remove them from UDU lists if they insist the past was better.
I'll take my standard UDU over 2 CR1s any day. YMMV.
Jun 7, 2012, 10:32 pm
#272
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
You definitely seem convinced of the worst with respect to gold/PE and I don't necessarily blame you considering UA's recent actions and behavior, but as I said (which you are welcome to disagree with), naming a status gold comes with a certain amount of gurantee in terms of benefits such as lounge access with respect to *A. Even as a founding member with more influence, UA has to maintain some level of integrity within the alliance to remain a member. Yes I'm a lowly silver (gold by year's end) compared to you at 1k, but having flown within *A for several years I can say pretty confidently that *G status could only be diluted so much before some amount of backlash, and the 50k tier is mostly standard for this status network wide.
Again, I point out that UA's website states only that "Million Milers enjoy generous annual benefits and lifetime Premier® status." No particular metal is now part of their "promise."
AC, to cite another example, has recently made changes.
There are a lot more metals in the world than Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Again, I'm in the camp believing UA can pretty well do whatever it wants moving forward. The exception, morally and still-to-be-decided legally, is in regard to previously promised lifetime benefits.
As for MM topic - I bet almost all these complainers get more upgrades now with UDU than they ever had with 2 annual CR1s. Perhaps UA should give CR1s back but permanently remove them from UDU lists if they insist the past was better.
I'll take my standard UDU over 2 CR1s any day. YMMV.
I'll take my standard UDU over 2 CR1s any day. YMMV.
Jun 7, 2012, 10:33 pm
#273
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
... As for MM topic - I bet almost all these complainers get more upgrades now with UDU than they ever had with 2 annual CR1s. Perhaps UA should give CR1s back but permanently remove them from UDU lists if they insist the past was better.
I'll take my standard UDU over 2 CR1s any day. YMMV.
I'll take my standard UDU over 2 CR1s any day. YMMV.
Jun 7, 2012, 10:39 pm
#274
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: UA Gold-MM, AA Gold-MM, F9-Silver, Hyatt Something, Marriott Gold, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,393
Jun 7, 2012, 10:41 pm
#275
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,911
a domestic saver award plus change, two 15K upgrade awards plus change
remember as 1M, one is only Gold and Gold UDU performance hub-hub is rather poor. I'm less concerned about regionals while I maintain status based on present activity, it is when my travel drops ( likely in the near future) when the regionals become more valuable.
remember as 1M, one is only Gold and Gold UDU performance hub-hub is rather poor. I'm less concerned about regionals while I maintain status based on present activity, it is when my travel drops ( likely in the near future) when the regionals become more valuable.
My guess (with no facts whatsoever to support it) is that UA may get rid of CR1s altogether in the foreseeable future.
Jun 7, 2012, 11:08 pm
#276
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.997MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,859
Jun 7, 2012, 11:16 pm
#277
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
However, with the new UA management, there is a totally different mind set.
Their attitude is to extend the finger if you do not like their decisions.
With people like that running the show, the only solution has already commenced.
They brought this on themselves!
-
Jun 7, 2012, 11:29 pm
#278
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
As for the forum, I will tell you, for it to have gathered 50 some people with no effort (including you), shows something. It's there for million milers to stay in touch. You have to think outside the realm of FlyerTalk, because of that little forum, it is quite possible it lead to the federal class action. So hold tight, it has all just begun. And at the very least I'm talking the talk and walking the walk, so don't be so quick to belittle this gent, my dear friend.
Now, let's talk about my status in the Mileage Plus, er MileagePlus, program, I have been a Million Mile Flyer for quite a long time. I was racing towards 2MM until the merger. With the recalibration, I became 2MMiler. Which makes me a Platinum.
Colpuck, I am one of the nicest gents one would ever meet. I don't bother anyone, I try to go through life as a gentleman. When something is wrong, a gentleman plainly says it is wrong and does everything in his power to fight against it and that is why I am standing up for what is fair.
We may not agree on things, and that is fine, we are all on this earth to live together. I wish you the same success and peace of mind I wish for myself.
UG
Last edited by UrbaneGent; Jun 8, 2012 at 8:00 am
Jun 8, 2012, 2:38 am
#279
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: UA 1K 1MM (finally!), IHG AMB-Spire, HH Diamond
Posts: 60,174
So throwing that in the mix is still appropriate IMO.
Jun 8, 2012, 4:52 am
#280
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Dubai / NYC
Programs: EK-IO, UA-1K2MM, ETIHAD-GOLD, SPG-PLAT LIFETIME, JUMEIRAH SERIUS GOLD
Posts: 5,220
U.G.: I just noticed you and I are in the same programs w same status. (SQ PPS / EK GOLD/*WOOD PLAT) Interested to see if your reasons for sticking w UA are same as mine since we both have status in 2 of the BEST!!!!!
Jun 8, 2012, 5:24 am
#281
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 5,000
-----
Last edited by zombietooth; Mar 17, 2015 at 10:49 pm
Jun 8, 2012, 5:52 am
#282
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SPI
Programs: AA Gold, UA LT Plat, Mar LTT
Posts: 18,147
I BELIEVE the folks at CO simply used THEIR method of running things without regard to what had previously been done at UA - and their "attempt" to categorize it as "fair" was an after the fact sop to UA MM'ers.
Dave
Jun 8, 2012, 7:53 am
#283
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 8, 2012 at 9:57 am Reason: merge
Jun 8, 2012, 8:00 am
#284
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Jersey Shore
Programs: UA 1MM, UA 1K, SPG Plat, Yfirst gold, Hyatt Plat, Avis Plat.
Posts: 309
I don't mean either to step on your tirade or rain on your parade, but I only earned MM status in 2011. As to those "changes changes" you mention?
Let's say I'd bargained for a lifetime of meals at Ruth's Chris, with access to a specified list of items on the menu. Over the years they tinkered with the list, for example adding the option of a sweet potato casserole side while removing the potatoes au gratin. No, I didn't complain.
One evening I arrive for dinner with my bib on and my cardiologist's emergency phone number in hand, only to learn that Denny's has now taken over Ruth's Chris. My new lifetime menu choices have been changed to such delectables as the country-fried steak, the Brooklyn Spaghetti & Meatballs, and the Prime Rib & Chicken Sizzlin' Skillet.
When I complain, a diner at an adjacent table r
lls his eyes at me and loudly reprimands me between bites to explain he's been enjoying Denny's for years and that I'm lucky to have anything to eat at all.
Would that be y
u, Xyzzy?
Let's say I'd bargained for a lifetime of meals at Ruth's Chris, with access to a specified list of items on the menu. Over the years they tinkered with the list, for example adding the option of a sweet potato casserole side while removing the potatoes au gratin. No, I didn't complain.
One evening I arrive for dinner with my bib on and my cardiologist's emergency phone number in hand, only to learn that Denny's has now taken over Ruth's Chris. My new lifetime menu choices have been changed to such delectables as the country-fried steak, the Brooklyn Spaghetti & Meatballs, and the Prime Rib & Chicken Sizzlin' Skillet.
When I complain, a diner at an adjacent table r
lls his eyes at me and loudly reprimands me between bites to explain he's been enjoying Denny's for years and that I'm lucky to have anything to eat at all.Would that be y
u, Xyzzy?
Jun 8, 2012, 8:02 am
#285
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,490
...I didn't ask you - or anyone else - to do anything they don't want to do. But if you mean sitting and doing nothing, not going to happen...
...And at the very least I'm talking the talk and walking the walk, so don't be so quick to belittle this gent, my dear friend...
...Colpuck, I am one of the nicest gents one would ever meet. I don't bother anyone, I try to go through life as a gentleman. When something is wrong, a gentleman plainly says it is wrong and does everything in his power to fight against it and that is why I am standing up for what is fair...
...And at the very least I'm talking the talk and walking the walk, so don't be so quick to belittle this gent, my dear friend...
...Colpuck, I am one of the nicest gents one would ever meet. I don't bother anyone, I try to go through life as a gentleman. When something is wrong, a gentleman plainly says it is wrong and does everything in his power to fight against it and that is why I am standing up for what is fair...
Full credit to you, UG, for expending your time and energy to start that website in a positive way, critics notwithstanding. ^
Likewise, full credit to the lonely individual who has put it on the line by launching a suit against a large and powerful company. ^
And I'm reminded of Teddy Roosevelt's comments throughout his lifetime about doers vs. critics, including the most famous one:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."