Wow, they're sure selling a lot of upgrades
Mar 5, 2012, 8:49 pm
#151
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: TPA
Programs: UA 1PP MM
Posts: 328
And how is this different than the organization that employs you and issues your paycheck each month?
Lest you forget - UA/CO is a for profit entity and therefore the $$$$ is king - - they aren't running a charity. Last time I checked, you pay the same price at Sears for a refrigerator as I do, regardless of how much either of us shops there.
So if they can sell a seat for $69 and generate additional revenue on the flight - why wouldn't they do that rather than give it away? If they give the seat away - that generates zero net additional revenue - if they sell it - that generates $$$$. Hmmm - how much does the company you work for give away for free?
Bottom line - you are a customer - the airline you fly is a for profit business. If you don't like it - take your business elsewhere. But this whole mentality of "they owe me something because I give them so much of my life" is just laughable.
Lest you forget - UA/CO is a for profit entity and therefore the $$$$ is king - - they aren't running a charity. Last time I checked, you pay the same price at Sears for a refrigerator as I do, regardless of how much either of us shops there.
So if they can sell a seat for $69 and generate additional revenue on the flight - why wouldn't they do that rather than give it away? If they give the seat away - that generates zero net additional revenue - if they sell it - that generates $$$$. Hmmm - how much does the company you work for give away for free?
Bottom line - you are a customer - the airline you fly is a for profit business. If you don't like it - take your business elsewhere. But this whole mentality of "they owe me something because I give them so much of my life" is just laughable.
Not only did we buy the fridge, sometimes we payed alot more for it - someties we went way out of our way to buy it.
We all pay our $69 and more each year. we just want our X,Y & Z.
Mar 5, 2012, 8:51 pm
#152
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West LA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 957
And how is this different than the organization that employs you and issues your paycheck each month?
Lest you forget - UA/CO is a for profit entity and therefore the $$$$ is king - - they aren't running a charity. Last time I checked, you pay the same price at Sears for a refrigerator as I do, regardless of how much either of us shops there.
So if they can sell a seat for $69 and generate additional revenue on the flight - why wouldn't they do that rather than give it away? If they give the seat away - that generates zero net additional revenue - if they sell it - that generates $$$$. Hmmm - how much does the company you work for give away for free?
Bottom line - you are a customer - the airline you fly is a for profit business. If you don't like it - take your business elsewhere. But this whole mentality of "they owe me something because I give them so much of my life" is just laughable.
Lest you forget - UA/CO is a for profit entity and therefore the $$$$ is king - - they aren't running a charity. Last time I checked, you pay the same price at Sears for a refrigerator as I do, regardless of how much either of us shops there.
So if they can sell a seat for $69 and generate additional revenue on the flight - why wouldn't they do that rather than give it away? If they give the seat away - that generates zero net additional revenue - if they sell it - that generates $$$$. Hmmm - how much does the company you work for give away for free?
Bottom line - you are a customer - the airline you fly is a for profit business. If you don't like it - take your business elsewhere. But this whole mentality of "they owe me something because I give them so much of my life" is just laughable.
There are plenty of different business's that use loyalty perks to generate/retain business. Most of the automotive and hotel industry has loyalty perks, and the retail industry has certain perks as well.
A business should look to retain loyal customers for the long run, not go for the quick buck.
Mar 5, 2012, 8:52 pm
#153
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,867
Yeah the thing is GS and higher spending 1K's are pretty valuable, not all, but some might spend well into 6 figures over the course of a lifetime. So it's really just economics. I don't know how much UA stands to make off TOD upgrades but it better be a lot.
Mar 5, 2012, 9:06 pm
#154
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin,TX (AUS)
Programs: AA, UA
Posts: 767
Last Christmas, I flew SAT-IAH-EWR. I was offered a $99 upgrade at check-in to Business-First on the 767 IAH-EWR. It was a light travel day (Saturday) so I'm sure there were few elites on that flight. Of course I took the upgrade. I was also offered an upgrade in SAT-IAH for $29 - I passed. On my return EWR-SAT flight I was offered upgrade for $700 - I passed.
I'm ok with this policy if:
1) Elites have an opportunity to purchase an upgrade before non-elites
2) Elites have a choice of pay to get upgraded now, or get on the waitlist
I'm ok with this policy if:
1) Elites have an opportunity to purchase an upgrade before non-elites
2) Elites have a choice of pay to get upgraded now, or get on the waitlist
Mar 5, 2012, 9:09 pm
#155
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 22
This is just not true. The employees who told you that are wrong. It goes by fare class within elite level. A silver who pays myre for a ticket only trumps another silver. I agree the misinformation is incredible in this thread. There have clearly been some planned and unplanned issues with CPUs running and how the gate lottery is working but that does not mean it is policy. I trust they will sort this out and for UAInsiders part, she has been updating the master thread regularly and has said they turned off the CPU system for a couple of days.
Mar 5, 2012, 9:17 pm
#156
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
I'm flying DFW-ORD-LGA, confirmed in F on DFW-ORD through CPU (
- according to the alarmist tone here).Still looks like a programming issue to me, as described by UA Insider in the thread I linked to above: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...only-time.html
Mar 5, 2012, 9:20 pm
#157
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
Well, then four CO employees were wrong as I got the same answer from all of them. At the CO United Club at LAX terminal 6 I was told that being a 1K does not hold any value when it comes to upgrades, if a silver paid a $1.50 more for their Y seat then they get the F seat. There are other aspects of being a 1K that has gone down too but those are best mentioned in a different thread. I've got 10 round trip flights booked into next month so my changing airlines at this point is out of the question.
Mar 5, 2012, 9:24 pm
#158
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP MM, HHonors Lifetime Diamond, Marriott Lifetime Ti, UA Silver
Posts: 5,037
There seem to be (at least) two separate issues being discussed in this thread:
1. UA is offering paid upgrades before filling F with elites via UDUs (and other upgrade instruments?).
2. UA is offering these paid upgrades to folks other than elites, so that it seems that the non-elites can fill the F seats and the elites are left hanging. And it's being done in a pretty non-transparent manner
Now, I'm not happy with either of these, but it seems that some folks will be fine as long as elites get equal or preferable treatment for the paid upgrades.
So what I think will happen is that, sooner or later, UA will make a transparent policy that it will offer paid upgrades to everyone before elites can fill the F seats with UDUs. Very probably it will offer them in staggered stages, with highest elites getting the choice first. Perhaps to maintain a fig leaf of respectability for UDUs, it will save a few seats in F for folks using UDUs.
All of this will be an enhancement, in response to customer feedback. And indeed some folks will be happy with the transparency and a bite at the apple.
1. UA is offering paid upgrades before filling F with elites via UDUs (and other upgrade instruments?).
2. UA is offering these paid upgrades to folks other than elites, so that it seems that the non-elites can fill the F seats and the elites are left hanging. And it's being done in a pretty non-transparent manner
Now, I'm not happy with either of these, but it seems that some folks will be fine as long as elites get equal or preferable treatment for the paid upgrades.
So what I think will happen is that, sooner or later, UA will make a transparent policy that it will offer paid upgrades to everyone before elites can fill the F seats with UDUs. Very probably it will offer them in staggered stages, with highest elites getting the choice first. Perhaps to maintain a fig leaf of respectability for UDUs, it will save a few seats in F for folks using UDUs.
All of this will be an enhancement, in response to customer feedback. And indeed some folks will be happy with the transparency and a bite at the apple.
And how is this different than the organization that employs you and issues your paycheck each month?
Lest you forget - UA/CO is a for profit entity and therefore the $$$$ is king - - they aren't running a charity. Last time I checked, you pay the same price at Sears for a refrigerator as I do, regardless of how much either of us shops there.
So if they can sell a seat for $69 and generate additional revenue on the flight - why wouldn't they do that rather than give it away? If they give the seat away - that generates zero net additional revenue - if they sell it - that generates $$$$. Hmmm - how much does the company you work for give away for free?
Bottom line - you are a customer - the airline you fly is a for profit business. If you don't like it - take your business elsewhere. But this whole mentality of "they owe me something because I give them so much of my life" is just laughable.
Lest you forget - UA/CO is a for profit entity and therefore the $$$$ is king - - they aren't running a charity. Last time I checked, you pay the same price at Sears for a refrigerator as I do, regardless of how much either of us shops there.
So if they can sell a seat for $69 and generate additional revenue on the flight - why wouldn't they do that rather than give it away? If they give the seat away - that generates zero net additional revenue - if they sell it - that generates $$$$. Hmmm - how much does the company you work for give away for free?
Bottom line - you are a customer - the airline you fly is a for profit business. If you don't like it - take your business elsewhere. But this whole mentality of "they owe me something because I give them so much of my life" is just laughable.
Mar 5, 2012, 9:39 pm
#159
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Radisson Premium
Posts: 6,638
So basically from what we see here, we're going to lose our upgrades to people who pay tens of dollars on any given flight. 47 people on the waitlist for ORD-LGA, but they're trying to sell an upgrade for $89? There's probably a GS on the top of the waitlist that's going to be denied the upgrade when the kayaker purchases it.
Mar 5, 2012, 9:44 pm
#160
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
UA owes me exactly what I thought I was getting when I took a chance on an upgrade using my last CR1 from BWI to SFO and was waitlisted, but confirmed from SFO to LAS. Had I known that my CR1 could be trumped by a buy-up at the last minute I wouldn't have burned the CR1 for a confirmation on just the short haul, taking a chance on the longer segment. The rules that I was playing by were that I would be higher on the list than most other upgrader's since I was using an instrument. I earned these CR1's the hard way and to now find out that someone with no status may just get their wish before me is pretty C.S.! By the way, I'm sick and tired of people saying that I didn't earn these things and therefore UA owes me nothing! They owe me exactly what they promised me in the recent crap that I got in the mail and that was a repayment for my loyalty!!!
Last edited by LilAbner; Mar 5, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Mar 5, 2012, 9:49 pm
#161
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: United Premier 1K 1MM; AA Plat Pro; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Platinum; Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,529
I flew back from SEA yesterday (4 March) via ORD to IAD. At online check-in I was offered to purchase an upgrade for $489 SEA-ORD and $289 from ORD-IAD. I declined and was CPU'd SEA-ORD at the airport and was #8 of 21 on the ORD-IAD flight. The one guy who got the last seat was CPUd.
I mention this because I'm not sure the upgrade system is broken. The cost for upgrades on my flights made since having bought an L fare.
Bottom line - I do not like offering to purchase upgrades when people are on a waitlist. I truly believe it diminishes the importance of the loyalty program. If people follow through on their threats to jump to other airlines and this happens in rather "large" quantities than maybe this process will change.
I mention this because I'm not sure the upgrade system is broken. The cost for upgrades on my flights made since having bought an L fare.
Bottom line - I do not like offering to purchase upgrades when people are on a waitlist. I truly believe it diminishes the importance of the loyalty program. If people follow through on their threats to jump to other airlines and this happens in rather "large" quantities than maybe this process will change.
Mar 5, 2012, 9:58 pm
#162
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ord
Programs: UAL 1k, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Diamond,Delta Medallion, Hilton Gold, Hertz Gold,Avis preferred
Posts: 13
How did you get the offer? Was it by email? Never seen one....
Mar 5, 2012, 10:05 pm
#163
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: United Premier 1K 1MM; AA Plat Pro; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Platinum; Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,529
I checked-in via mobile.united.com and it was a button or two above where I could change my seats. It says something like "Upgrade for $298". That same linke also appears online and it's next to the link that allows you to purchase miles.
If you're not seeing it that gives credence to concerns that the system isn't working correctly because many elites have complained that they aren't offered this upgrade when they're on the stand-by/waitlist for upgrades.
If you're not seeing it that gives credence to concerns that the system isn't working correctly because many elites have complained that they aren't offered this upgrade when they're on the stand-by/waitlist for upgrades.
Mar 5, 2012, 10:06 pm
#164
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: SEATTLE, WA USA
Programs: UAL, AA, AS, CX
Posts: 1,973
Well, personally, I think this is a move in the right direction.
UDUs were, in the scheme of things, a dumb idea. All it did was to create a class of 1Ks who, instead of being pleasantly surprised to get the occasional upgrade, got so many upgrades that they rapidly started to think of upgrades as their right and instead to be disappointed when they didn't get "their" upgrades. How dare the airline *not* give me something which sells for three times what I paid for it?
Note that it doesn't work like this in any other industry -- you can't go round buying a lot of cheaper products and expect them to instantly start giving you a much more expensive version instead. Buying a lot of Camrys doesn't mean that you suddenly start getting LS460s for the same price.
Worse still, the folks who were getting all the free upgrades are to a large extent the same folks who used to be paying for the first class seats, so the airline has suddenly screwed itself out of a lot of extra money in exchange for a bunch of "loyal" customers who cry every time they don't get more than they paid for. And with the average First Class seat all of a sudden being filled by someone paying an economy-class fare, they're forced to cut the quality of the service, causing them to cry even more.
This is the way that they'll turn First Class back into a profit centre, and hopefully eventually into something that actually deserves the name. They know they can't fill every seat at a First-Class fare, but at a hundred bucks a pop they easily can. They won't abolish UDUs, not just yet, but they will break down the expectation of getting one, and slowly tune the upgrade price to get to the point where UDU is, as it should be, an occasional surprise instead of an expectation. They won't do it too fast in order to avoid losing too many to the other airlines, but they'll do it.
Anyway, if the net result is a VX-quality first class cabin, eventually selling for VX-type prices, then I'm all for it in my capacity both as a passenger and as someone who doesn't want to see the airline go broke.
UDUs were, in the scheme of things, a dumb idea. All it did was to create a class of 1Ks who, instead of being pleasantly surprised to get the occasional upgrade, got so many upgrades that they rapidly started to think of upgrades as their right and instead to be disappointed when they didn't get "their" upgrades. How dare the airline *not* give me something which sells for three times what I paid for it?
Note that it doesn't work like this in any other industry -- you can't go round buying a lot of cheaper products and expect them to instantly start giving you a much more expensive version instead. Buying a lot of Camrys doesn't mean that you suddenly start getting LS460s for the same price.
Worse still, the folks who were getting all the free upgrades are to a large extent the same folks who used to be paying for the first class seats, so the airline has suddenly screwed itself out of a lot of extra money in exchange for a bunch of "loyal" customers who cry every time they don't get more than they paid for. And with the average First Class seat all of a sudden being filled by someone paying an economy-class fare, they're forced to cut the quality of the service, causing them to cry even more.
This is the way that they'll turn First Class back into a profit centre, and hopefully eventually into something that actually deserves the name. They know they can't fill every seat at a First-Class fare, but at a hundred bucks a pop they easily can. They won't abolish UDUs, not just yet, but they will break down the expectation of getting one, and slowly tune the upgrade price to get to the point where UDU is, as it should be, an occasional surprise instead of an expectation. They won't do it too fast in order to avoid losing too many to the other airlines, but they'll do it.
Anyway, if the net result is a VX-quality first class cabin, eventually selling for VX-type prices, then I'm all for it in my capacity both as a passenger and as someone who doesn't want to see the airline go broke.
Mar 5, 2012, 10:07 pm
#165
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
The worse part of this scenario is that the Rube turns right when boarding our 757 before being redirected to my FC seat!
Well then I propose that you just skedaddle right back on over to AA where your money, status, and opinions will get them out of bankruptcy!
Well then I propose that you just skedaddle right back on over to AA where your money, status, and opinions will get them out of bankruptcy!
Last edited by iluv2fly; Mar 6, 2012 at 2:47 am Reason: merge