Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
May 11, 2012, 12:13 pm
#106
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: HH Gold, AA Gold
Posts: 10,458
Then, add SHARES into the mix and you really have a mess on your hands. The PMUA have had to learn a totally new system in a very short period of time. GetSetJetSet, I don't know what industry you work in but it would be tantamount to someone telling you that you're working in a new computer language after about 8 hours of training. It would take you a while to get up to speed.
May 11, 2012, 12:40 pm
#107
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
Hang on just a moment! You crossed a very important line. Most UA agents are hard working, intelligent individuals. Due to the very complex nature of rules, fares, and changes in the airline industry, it is hard for ANY agent to know EVERY current rule and regulation. The smart ones say, "Hold on, let me check on that." if they are not sure of a partcular rule, fare, or itinerary.
Then, add SHARES into the mix and you really have a mess on your hands. The PMUA have had to learn a totally new system in a very short period of time. GetSetJetSet, I don't know what industry you work in but it would be tantamount to someone telling you that you're working in a new computer language after about 8 hours of training. It would take you a while to get up to speed.
Then, add SHARES into the mix and you really have a mess on your hands. The PMUA have had to learn a totally new system in a very short period of time. GetSetJetSet, I don't know what industry you work in but it would be tantamount to someone telling you that you're working in a new computer language after about 8 hours of training. It would take you a while to get up to speed.
But this is all irrelevant if they can't book a trip like this (which by the way is not that complicated, as these things go) and charge the right amount. I give no quarter for having to "learn a totally new system in a very short amount of time". This just ain't OP's fault, nor mine. If they weren't ready to go live and do it right, then they should have called time out and held off.
Making apologies for an airline-wide mess won't fly. Read the threads in the UA forum-they've thrown away years of goodwill, and they won't get it back with a few "we're better now" campaigns.
Could you provide more info on the above please? I'm going to book a similar trip this weekend and it would help to know the core problem. I have linked the various pages from UA.com-it seems pretty clear to me that under 24 hours is a connection, not a stopover. What did I miss?
Last edited by iluv2fly; May 11, 2012 at 1:37 pm Reason: merge
May 11, 2012, 12:48 pm
#108
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago, IL, US
Posts: 2,210
Uh, hard working-yup, especially since March 3. Intelligent-most are.
But this is all irrelevant if they can't book a trip like this (which by the way is not that complicated, as these things go) and charge the right amount. I give no quarter for having to "learn a totally new system in a very short amount of time". This just ain't OP's fault, nor mine. If they weren't ready to go live and do it right, then they should have called time out and held off.
Making apologies for an airline-wide mess won't fly. Read the threads in the UA forum-they've thrown away years of goodwill, and they won't get it back with a few "we're better now" campaigns.
But this is all irrelevant if they can't book a trip like this (which by the way is not that complicated, as these things go) and charge the right amount. I give no quarter for having to "learn a totally new system in a very short amount of time". This just ain't OP's fault, nor mine. If they weren't ready to go live and do it right, then they should have called time out and held off.
Making apologies for an airline-wide mess won't fly. Read the threads in the UA forum-they've thrown away years of goodwill, and they won't get it back with a few "we're better now" campaigns.
May 11, 2012, 10:41 pm
#109
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
Describing people as idiots is both wrong and unecessary, though I understand the frustration people are feeling with the post March 3 mess.
May 12, 2012, 11:09 am
#110
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: UA 1K 2MM, BA Gold, SQ TPP
Posts: 1,487
This is all doable online?
I searched, but I haven't seen this topic discussed anywhere:
In much the same way that you can tack a free oneway onto an award with AA miles, you can do the same onto a United award.
Basically you need your stopover and one open jaw to tack on a free oneway. So you can't tack a free oneway onto a oneway award (since no stopovers are allowed). But you can tack a free oneway onto any international roundtrip award. The free oneway can basically go anywhere in the US 49 (not Hawaii) or Canada.
Or you can add a oneway to/from Hawaii for only 2,500 miles more on a US-Europe roundtrip, and adding a oneway to/from the Caribbean before/after a US-Europe roundtrip actually decreases the award price by 2,500 miles!
I even found that this routing priced at 40k:
SBA-LAX-EWR-LIM
LIM-IAH-LAX-SBA
SBA-PHX-EWR
This return goes from Houston all the way to a regional airport on the west coast all the way back to Newark, but it's a free oneway!
You can even bend back on your own routing and go to the same city twice in one direction. This award priced at 60k:
DEN-IAD-LHR
LHR-PHL-DEN
DEN-PHL
Yes that return is London to Philly to Denver to Philly.
Tacking on oneways can save substantial miles if you plan properly. For instance, US-Europe roundtrip in coach is 60k miles. US to Brazil oneway is 30k more. But if you book
EWR-LHR
LHR-EWR
EWR-GRU
United only charges 1/2 US-Europe r/t + 1/2 Southern South America-Europe r/t, which is 77,500 miles or 12,500 miles less than booking the legs separately.
Full details with tons of screen shots are available on my blog, which has an uncreative URL if you look at my user name.
Also I mentioned AA free oneways because most people are familiar with them, but in my opinion UA free oneways have much better rules because among other things you don't have to have your "stopover" at the international gateway city and you don't have to worry about the overwater carrier having a published fare from your origin to your destination!
In much the same way that you can tack a free oneway onto an award with AA miles, you can do the same onto a United award.
Basically you need your stopover and one open jaw to tack on a free oneway. So you can't tack a free oneway onto a oneway award (since no stopovers are allowed). But you can tack a free oneway onto any international roundtrip award. The free oneway can basically go anywhere in the US 49 (not Hawaii) or Canada.
Or you can add a oneway to/from Hawaii for only 2,500 miles more on a US-Europe roundtrip, and adding a oneway to/from the Caribbean before/after a US-Europe roundtrip actually decreases the award price by 2,500 miles!
I even found that this routing priced at 40k:
SBA-LAX-EWR-LIM
LIM-IAH-LAX-SBA
SBA-PHX-EWR
This return goes from Houston all the way to a regional airport on the west coast all the way back to Newark, but it's a free oneway!
You can even bend back on your own routing and go to the same city twice in one direction. This award priced at 60k:
DEN-IAD-LHR
LHR-PHL-DEN
DEN-PHL
Yes that return is London to Philly to Denver to Philly.
Tacking on oneways can save substantial miles if you plan properly. For instance, US-Europe roundtrip in coach is 60k miles. US to Brazil oneway is 30k more. But if you book
EWR-LHR
LHR-EWR
EWR-GRU
United only charges 1/2 US-Europe r/t + 1/2 Southern South America-Europe r/t, which is 77,500 miles or 12,500 miles less than booking the legs separately.
Full details with tons of screen shots are available on my blog, which has an uncreative URL if you look at my user name.
Also I mentioned AA free oneways because most people are familiar with them, but in my opinion UA free oneways have much better rules because among other things you don't have to have your "stopover" at the international gateway city and you don't have to worry about the overwater carrier having a published fare from your origin to your destination!
May 12, 2012, 2:26 pm
#111
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 41
christian
May 12, 2012, 8:46 pm
#112
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Denver CO
Posts: 3,682
Yes you can - the easiest way to do this - is book the undesirable connection online.
Within 24 hours, even better if before ticketing, call UA and get an agent to switch your flight to the one you want
You can try to force it using multicity, but if it doesnt work, see above.
Within 24 hours, even better if before ticketing, call UA and get an agent to switch your flight to the one you want
You can try to force it using multicity, but if it doesnt work, see above.
May 13, 2012, 2:54 am
#113
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
I don't believe in calling anyone an idiot, but I can reluctlantly excuse that "idiot" comment, because it now seems that every trip has an issue. The agents' gross lack of knowledge of the rules is inexcusable. If management is instructing agents to ignore the rules, then something needs to be done.
May 30, 2012, 9:37 am
#114
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oakland
Posts: 199
Domestic Award Ticket w/Stopover: How Many Miles?
Anybody have experience with pricing for a domestic award ticket with a stopover?
I'm looking at a saver first award SFO-AUS-SAN-SFO, and the website is pricing out at 60,000 miles. I was expecting either (a) a free stopover, so 50,000 miles, or (b) it pricing as all one ways, so 75,000 miles. When I called, first the agent tried to tell me that 60,000 was the price for a domestic roundtrip award [at which point I stopped believing anything else she said], then said something along the lines of "that's how the website priced it," implying that it therefore must be correct.
On united.com, I see this "A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the mainland U.S., Alaska and Canada." (http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...vel/types.aspx), so I guess I'm getting hit by the "additional mileage may be required."
Basically, I'm trying to figure out if 60,000 is the correct cost for a domestic saver first ticket with stopover, or if I should be trying to fight for the 50,000 price.
I'm looking at a saver first award SFO-AUS-SAN-SFO, and the website is pricing out at 60,000 miles. I was expecting either (a) a free stopover, so 50,000 miles, or (b) it pricing as all one ways, so 75,000 miles. When I called, first the agent tried to tell me that 60,000 was the price for a domestic roundtrip award [at which point I stopped believing anything else she said], then said something along the lines of "that's how the website priced it," implying that it therefore must be correct.
On united.com, I see this "A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the mainland U.S., Alaska and Canada." (http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...vel/types.aspx), so I guess I'm getting hit by the "additional mileage may be required."
Basically, I'm trying to figure out if 60,000 is the correct cost for a domestic saver first ticket with stopover, or if I should be trying to fight for the 50,000 price.
May 30, 2012, 9:42 am
#115
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Anybody have experience with pricing for a domestic award ticket with a stopover?
I'm looking at a saver first award SFO-AUS-SAN-SFO, and the website is pricing out at 60,000 miles. I was expecting either (a) a free stopover, so 50,000 miles, or (b) it pricing as all one ways, so 75,000 miles. When I called, first the agent tried to tell me that 60,000 was the price for a domestic roundtrip award [at which point I stopped believing anything else she said], then said something along the lines of "that's how the website priced it," implying that it therefore must be correct.
On united.com, I see this "A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the mainland U.S., Alaska and Canada." (http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...vel/types.aspx), so I guess I'm getting hit by the "additional mileage may be required."
Basically, I'm trying to figure out if 60,000 is the correct cost for a domestic saver first ticket with stopover, or if I should be trying to fight for the 50,000 price.
I'm looking at a saver first award SFO-AUS-SAN-SFO, and the website is pricing out at 60,000 miles. I was expecting either (a) a free stopover, so 50,000 miles, or (b) it pricing as all one ways, so 75,000 miles. When I called, first the agent tried to tell me that 60,000 was the price for a domestic roundtrip award [at which point I stopped believing anything else she said], then said something along the lines of "that's how the website priced it," implying that it therefore must be correct.
On united.com, I see this "A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the mainland U.S., Alaska and Canada." (http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...vel/types.aspx), so I guess I'm getting hit by the "additional mileage may be required."
Basically, I'm trying to figure out if 60,000 is the correct cost for a domestic saver first ticket with stopover, or if I should be trying to fight for the 50,000 price.
I've booked domestic Y for my parents for 35K (25K + 10K) many times.
May 30, 2012, 10:02 am
#116
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Awards wholly within the mainland USA, Canada and Alaska have a surcharge for stopovers. You can see the full details here: http://www.united.com/web/en-US/apps...?O=US&D=US&P=T.
Jun 13, 2012, 10:13 am
#117
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Programs: MAR TE ... UA PS
Posts: 92
Can you still stopover for several days on a UA award ticket?
I would like to plan a trip to Hawaii next summer with a 5-7 day layover in Los Angeles using miles, and I would like to do it with a single round trip from IAH to LIH.
I just spoke to someone at United who insisted that it can be done only as a multi-leg trip and costing more miles. Is this true? The last time I tried in 2009, for a 2010 trip to Europe, we were able to do this as a single round trip.
I just spoke to someone at United who insisted that it can be done only as a multi-leg trip and costing more miles. Is this true? The last time I tried in 2009, for a 2010 trip to Europe, we were able to do this as a single round trip.
Jun 13, 2012, 10:17 am
#118
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 261
Stopovers are not allowed for Mainland US rewards. I believe the same applies to Hawaii and other North American destination. You are able to do it to other regions though.
Jun 13, 2012, 10:23 am
#119
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond, UA 1K MM, SPG Plat For Life, Marriott Plat, Nexus/GlobalEntry
Posts: 9,198
Yes.. round trip awards to Hawaii allow one stopover. So you can stop in LA for a few days in one direction.
Jun 13, 2012, 12:14 pm
#120
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Hawaii does permit stopovers while Canada/Alaska do not.