Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
May 10, 2012, 4:56 pm
#91
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 756
Correct as that was my initial intention but as I also stated, will be willing to pay something (cheaper the better or course) if no other way around it. I also heard that travel thru Europe (espec. London ) was more costly with their imposed airport fees. But never travel thru Europe (yet) on award travels with UA so unsure of that. Just for the record, I had used BA miles with their award travels to Europe last year and travel thru Europe (espec. London) added a few hundred $ to the fees/ticket for the misses and myself (fees cost almost as much as a discounted RT on economy).
May 10, 2012, 5:18 pm
#92
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
Through FRA (good for LH and TG) the fees are minimal.
May 10, 2012, 5:31 pm
#93
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
A simple transit of a UK airport on a single ticket may add nothing but a ~$28 Passenger Service Charge.
The generalization that routing through European airports adds fees and thus should be avoided is not useful.
May 10, 2012, 10:58 pm
#94
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA 1KMM, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 296
Legal stopover on my proposed award itinerary?
OK, I'm almost embarrassed to ask, but I think I'm ok here, just wanted a quick vet before I call my pals @ the 1K desk.
Currently booked on an award DEN-FRA-IST(4 days)-ATH(4 days)-FRA-DEN on a mix of LH and TK this fall.
We've decided to change from Greece to Croatia. New itinerary would be
DEN-FRA-IST(4days)-ZAG-DBV(4days)-ZAG-FRA(16 hrs)-DEN. Mix of LH, TK, OU.
Seems to me this is fine. Essentially, it's DEN-DBV-DEN with a stopover in IST. The morning flights from DBV don't get us to FRA in time for the DEN flight (only an 85 min connxn), so an overnight is logical (and well under 24 hours). But for some reason I'm expecting flak. Is it legal?
Currently booked on an award DEN-FRA-IST(4 days)-ATH(4 days)-FRA-DEN on a mix of LH and TK this fall.
We've decided to change from Greece to Croatia. New itinerary would be
DEN-FRA-IST(4days)-ZAG-DBV(4days)-ZAG-FRA(16 hrs)-DEN. Mix of LH, TK, OU.
Seems to me this is fine. Essentially, it's DEN-DBV-DEN with a stopover in IST. The morning flights from DBV don't get us to FRA in time for the DEN flight (only an 85 min connxn), so an overnight is logical (and well under 24 hours). But for some reason I'm expecting flak. Is it legal?
May 10, 2012, 11:18 pm
#95
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Looks good to me.
Some agents give flack from time to time, but most are fine, and I wouldn't expect this to be a problem.
Some agents give flack from time to time, but most are fine, and I wouldn't expect this to be a problem.
May 11, 2012, 3:15 am
#96
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: EZE
Posts: 123
Tacking Free Oneways onto United Awards
I searched, but I haven't seen this topic discussed anywhere:
In much the same way that you can tack a free oneway onto an award with AA miles, you can do the same onto a United award.
Basically you need your stopover and one open jaw to tack on a free oneway. So you can't tack a free oneway onto a oneway award (since no stopovers are allowed). But you can tack a free oneway onto any international roundtrip award. The free oneway can basically go anywhere in the US 49 (not Hawaii) or Canada.
Or you can add a oneway to/from Hawaii for only 2,500 miles more on a US-Europe roundtrip, and adding a oneway to/from the Caribbean before/after a US-Europe roundtrip actually decreases the award price by 2,500 miles!
I even found that this routing priced at 40k:
SBA-LAX-EWR-LIM
LIM-IAH-LAX-SBA
SBA-PHX-EWR
This return goes from Houston all the way to a regional airport on the west coast all the way back to Newark, but it's a free oneway!
You can even bend back on your own routing and go to the same city twice in one direction. This award priced at 60k:
DEN-IAD-LHR
LHR-PHL-DEN
DEN-PHL
Yes that return is London to Philly to Denver to Philly.
Tacking on oneways can save substantial miles if you plan properly. For instance, US-Europe roundtrip in coach is 60k miles. US to Brazil oneway is 30k more. But if you book
EWR-LHR
LHR-EWR
EWR-GRU
United only charges 1/2 US-Europe r/t + 1/2 Southern South America-Europe r/t, which is 77,500 miles or 12,500 miles less than booking the legs separately.
Full details with tons of screen shots are available on my blog, which has an uncreative URL if you look at my user name.
Also I mentioned AA free oneways because most people are familiar with them, but in my opinion UA free oneways have much better rules because among other things you don't have to have your "stopover" at the international gateway city and you don't have to worry about the overwater carrier having a published fare from your origin to your destination!
In much the same way that you can tack a free oneway onto an award with AA miles, you can do the same onto a United award.
Basically you need your stopover and one open jaw to tack on a free oneway. So you can't tack a free oneway onto a oneway award (since no stopovers are allowed). But you can tack a free oneway onto any international roundtrip award. The free oneway can basically go anywhere in the US 49 (not Hawaii) or Canada.
Or you can add a oneway to/from Hawaii for only 2,500 miles more on a US-Europe roundtrip, and adding a oneway to/from the Caribbean before/after a US-Europe roundtrip actually decreases the award price by 2,500 miles!
I even found that this routing priced at 40k:
SBA-LAX-EWR-LIM
LIM-IAH-LAX-SBA
SBA-PHX-EWR
This return goes from Houston all the way to a regional airport on the west coast all the way back to Newark, but it's a free oneway!
You can even bend back on your own routing and go to the same city twice in one direction. This award priced at 60k:
DEN-IAD-LHR
LHR-PHL-DEN
DEN-PHL
Yes that return is London to Philly to Denver to Philly.
Tacking on oneways can save substantial miles if you plan properly. For instance, US-Europe roundtrip in coach is 60k miles. US to Brazil oneway is 30k more. But if you book
EWR-LHR
LHR-EWR
EWR-GRU
United only charges 1/2 US-Europe r/t + 1/2 Southern South America-Europe r/t, which is 77,500 miles or 12,500 miles less than booking the legs separately.
Full details with tons of screen shots are available on my blog, which has an uncreative URL if you look at my user name.
Also I mentioned AA free oneways because most people are familiar with them, but in my opinion UA free oneways have much better rules because among other things you don't have to have your "stopover" at the international gateway city and you don't have to worry about the overwater carrier having a published fare from your origin to your destination!
May 11, 2012, 7:11 am
#97
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Agreed. I also found out today that one of the entries in the GDS regarding award rules and open jaws is incorrect, which is part of why some agents push back on more complicated routings. But this one should be no problem.
May 11, 2012, 7:33 am
#98
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,866
Although the contract of carriage says 24 hours, they made me spend another 65,000 miles per person to avoid an involuntary downgrade because I had a stop of about 15 hours. There are a large number of agents who claim a stop of more than 12 hours is an additional stopover.
May 11, 2012, 7:37 am
#99
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Although the contract of carriage says 24 hours, they made me spend another 65,000 miles per person to avoid an involuntary downgrade because I had a stop of about 15 hours. There are a large number of agents who claim a stop of more than 12 hours is an additional stopover.
Either way I'd have no problem with having the agent store the fare if that's what they thought it should be and having someone else clean in up later. Or simply staying on the line with them while they learn reality.
May 11, 2012, 7:38 am
#100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,432
Although the contract of carriage says 24 hours, they made me spend another 65,000 miles per person to avoid an involuntary downgrade because I had a stop of about 15 hours. There are a large number of agents who claim a stop of more than 12 hours is an additional stopover.
ng. If you've not flown this yet you should have this fixed and get those extra miles back.
May 11, 2012, 7:39 am
#101
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
May 11, 2012, 8:24 am
#102
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WA, US
Programs: lots of little things
Posts: 705
Thanks for the info, this is really good stuff. I'll keep playing around with this!
May 11, 2012, 11:24 am
#103
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA 1KMM, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 296
Thanks all. Since the itin won't even construct/price online, I didn't have the utmost confidence (even though we did a very similar itin last year - pre 3/3, of course), but seems we'll be OK. Calling them later.
May 11, 2012, 11:37 am
#104
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
You just need an agent to sell in what you want and then price it.
May 11, 2012, 11:54 am
#105
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,798
Although the contract of carriage says 24 hours, they made me spend another 65,000 miles per person to avoid an involuntary downgrade because I had a stop of about 15 hours. There are a large number of agents who claim a stop of more than 12 hours is an additional stopover.