Turkish at TLV. How did they get to be so successful?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 71
Turkish at TLV. How did they get to be so successful?
Just returned to TLV after my second trip with TK this year in J. Until recently Turkish has been TLV’s largest foreign carrier. After the second flight I am even more confused as to how that has come to be.
- no business class queue available for pre-check in security. The guy managing the queue said there’s nobody waiting and that he doesn’t have an agent for business. There was a short queue but still took 10 min. Never happened with another airline
- 2 supervisor counters not forthcoming in helping when the business counter was occupied for 5 min+ (by economy passenger) with luggage problem
- Star alliance website says entry for gold is to any of the three Dan Lounges in TLV. As flight was departing from the E gates, I tried to enter the lounge in E and was told it’s not for Tk and to go to other side of terminal - B gates
- Boarding handling was a mess both times... info on screens not updated, no signage for priority, more like a pushing scrum to get onto the plane
- bus gates in Istanbul and TLV with inconsistency on the business class bus (once had, twice did not). In TLV the whole plane was squeezed onto one bus which even LCC’s don’t do. Took 15 min to load (on arrival).
- Inconsistent seat- everything from 3-3 with the middle blocked and no IFE to extra reclining 2-2
#3
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
Programs: UA MM/1P, EK Au, QR, TK, Marriott Life Ti, Hilton Dia, IC Dia, Hyatt Glob, Accor Pt, Shangri-La
Posts: 4,526
I suppose the lack of competition. If one wants to fly southbound or eastbound from TLV there are not a lot of options.
Maybe someday politics will thaw and Emirates can serve TLV, which would end TK's competitive advantage.
P.S. Which foreign carrier is now larger than TK there?
Maybe someday politics will thaw and Emirates can serve TLV, which would end TK's competitive advantage.
P.S. Which foreign carrier is now larger than TK there?
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 71
#5
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MD/DC
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, TK Gold
Posts: 1,536
Just returned to TLV after my second trip with TK this year in J. Until recently Turkish has been TLV’s largest foreign carrier. After the second flight I am even more confused as to how that has come to be.
- no business class queue available for pre-check in security. The guy managing the queue said there’s nobody waiting and that he doesn’t have an agent for business. There was a short queue but still took 10 min. Never happened with another airline
- 2 supervisor counters not forthcoming in helping when the business counter was occupied for 5 min+ (by economy passenger) with luggage problem
- Star alliance website says entry for gold is to any of the three Dan Lounges in TLV. As flight was departing from the E gates, I tried to enter the lounge in E and was told it’s not for Tk and to go to other side of terminal - B gates
- Boarding handling was a mess both times... info on screens not updated, no signage for priority, more like a pushing scrum to get onto the plane
- bus gates in Istanbul and TLV with inconsistency on the business class bus (once had, twice did not). In TLV the whole plane was squeezed onto one bus which even LCC’s don’t do. Took 15 min to load (on arrival).
- Inconsistent seat- everything from 3-3 with the middle blocked and no IFE to extra reclining 2-2
In my experience there is always a business line available for business class passengers - though it is never marked and you have to ask about it (you'll need to be assertive).
There is no * lounge in TLV. Dan E is clearly a different beast and on most carriers websites it is clearly said that it is excluded.
TLV-IST is a short flight - I'm still surprised they send 777 and A330 on the route. Connecting to the many USA cities this is usually the best connection time and you can be assured for a real business class seat. That said, there are plenty of narrow bodies on the route. But it barely two hours flight and it is better than any other carrier from TLV (apart from Swiss and British).
It is still the best service out of TLV connecting forward, if you chose your flight strategically and understand the general limitations of TK.
#6
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DXB / KUO
Programs: AY, SQ, EK
Posts: 858
Checking % of scheduled int'l seats for w/o 3 Feb (source: CAPA)
1. El Al 22.9%
2. easyJet 6.3%
3. Ryanair 6.0%
4. Turkish Airlines 5.9%
5. Wizz Air 5.5%
6. Aeroflot 4.0%
Frequencies:
1. El Al 23.4%
2. easyJet 6.5%
3. Ryanair 6.1%
4. Turkish Airlines 5.7%
5. Wizz Air 5.1%
6. Aeroflot 3.6%
1. El Al 22.9%
2. easyJet 6.3%
3. Ryanair 6.0%
4. Turkish Airlines 5.9%
5. Wizz Air 5.5%
6. Aeroflot 4.0%
Frequencies:
1. El Al 23.4%
2. easyJet 6.5%
3. Ryanair 6.1%
4. Turkish Airlines 5.7%
5. Wizz Air 5.1%
6. Aeroflot 3.6%
#7
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 71
Many of the issues you have identified are airport issues and not TK issues.
In my experience there is always a business line available for business class passengers - though it is never marked and you have to ask about it (you'll need to be assertive).
There is no * lounge in TLV. Dan E is clearly a different beast and on most carriers websites it is clearly said that it is excluded.
TLV-IST is a short flight - I'm still surprised they send 777 and A330 on the route. Connecting to the many USA cities this is usually the best connection time and you can be assured for a real business class seat. That said, there are plenty of narrow bodies on the route. But it barely two hours flight and it is better than any other carrier from TLV (apart from Swiss and British).
It is still the best service out of TLV connecting forward, if you chose your flight strategically and understand the general limitations of TK.
In my experience there is always a business line available for business class passengers - though it is never marked and you have to ask about it (you'll need to be assertive).
There is no * lounge in TLV. Dan E is clearly a different beast and on most carriers websites it is clearly said that it is excluded.
TLV-IST is a short flight - I'm still surprised they send 777 and A330 on the route. Connecting to the many USA cities this is usually the best connection time and you can be assured for a real business class seat. That said, there are plenty of narrow bodies on the route. But it barely two hours flight and it is better than any other carrier from TLV (apart from Swiss and British).
It is still the best service out of TLV connecting forward, if you chose your flight strategically and understand the general limitations of TK.
Similarly most others give a lounge voucher at TLV and say which sleeve it’s valid in if there’s a limitation. ( regardless of the fact that it says on * website that E is valid for Star Gold.)
And most of the mainline airlines don’t use remote gates, they connect via jetbridge, and if it does happen (rarely) whilst there’s no separate business bus, Ive never seen them try to squeeze a whole plane into one bus (even LCC’s or domestic flights). It’s just down to the airline’s SLA and agreement with their handling agency and local/global management.
Again, there’s no need for lie flat on such a short route but when they advertise recliner seats Or better and you get middle seat blocked it’s not impressive...
#10
Join Date: May 2000
Location: HFA
Posts: 1,712
Many of the issues you encountered are indeed not TK-specific.
The security issue is totally out of TKs control. It's the airport, period. And it must be a fluke, as I've never had the same experience when flying business, on TK or any other airline.
And the lounge at E... Check the LY forum for discussion of the E lounge. It's currently only used by BA and LATAM. Long story... but no other airline uses it. Indeed, it's high time for a Star lounge at TLV, but it's not a TK issue.
Why did they succeed? I have some theories. First, they were the first foreign airline to introduce decent schedules to/from TLV. If I need to get to, say, Berlin or Oslo, before the age of the LCCs I could connect in maybe a dozen cities in Europe, but I had to choose between departing TLV at 5am and departing in the afternoon but arriving around midnight. With TK, connecting in IST, I could depart at 11am or 2pm and arrive early evening: much more humane. And the same holds for the returns to TLV. Second, TK had excellent catering, including in Y, which is a winner for many leisure Israeli passengers. Third, in spite of the political differences between the two governments, Israelis feel comfortable around Turks, it's that similar mediterranean attitude. Add that to the low fares to Antalya and the all-inclusive deals there, and you will understand why Antalya, and Turkey in General, are preferred vacation destinations for Israelis. Finally, TK regularly flies widebodies to TLV, and is one of the only airlines that can take you from TLV to several European cities (and, of course, to most long-distance destinations) in lie-flat seats. And indeed, their fares used to be very competitive (less so now, I must admit).
I suppose this should provide some explanation.
Shuly
The security issue is totally out of TKs control. It's the airport, period. And it must be a fluke, as I've never had the same experience when flying business, on TK or any other airline.
And the lounge at E... Check the LY forum for discussion of the E lounge. It's currently only used by BA and LATAM. Long story... but no other airline uses it. Indeed, it's high time for a Star lounge at TLV, but it's not a TK issue.
Why did they succeed? I have some theories. First, they were the first foreign airline to introduce decent schedules to/from TLV. If I need to get to, say, Berlin or Oslo, before the age of the LCCs I could connect in maybe a dozen cities in Europe, but I had to choose between departing TLV at 5am and departing in the afternoon but arriving around midnight. With TK, connecting in IST, I could depart at 11am or 2pm and arrive early evening: much more humane. And the same holds for the returns to TLV. Second, TK had excellent catering, including in Y, which is a winner for many leisure Israeli passengers. Third, in spite of the political differences between the two governments, Israelis feel comfortable around Turks, it's that similar mediterranean attitude. Add that to the low fares to Antalya and the all-inclusive deals there, and you will understand why Antalya, and Turkey in General, are preferred vacation destinations for Israelis. Finally, TK regularly flies widebodies to TLV, and is one of the only airlines that can take you from TLV to several European cities (and, of course, to most long-distance destinations) in lie-flat seats. And indeed, their fares used to be very competitive (less so now, I must admit).
I suppose this should provide some explanation.
Shuly
#11
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: OTP
Programs: AF/KL platinum, Turkish gold, QR gold
Posts: 1,572
Third, in spite of the political differences between the two governments, Israelis feel comfortable around Turks, it's that similar mediterranean attitude. Add that to the low fares to Antalya and the all-inclusive deals there, and you will understand why Antalya, and Turkey in General, are preferred vacation destinations for Israelis.
But that's just a minor hassle though - and I can obviously understand their point of view
#12
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: TLV
Programs: UA Platinum, Avis Chairman, Marriott Gold, Hilton Gold, GA Pilot
Posts: 3,225
I used to fly HBO ex TLV to a lot of secondary destinations in Europe that required connections on any airline. Combination of price, frequencies, star alliance perks (the lounge in IST is great) made them an easy choice until Erdogan made it a much more difficult choice with his behavior and words). Now I mostly avoid TK if I can.
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 71
If that’s the case, then the Star Alliance website is wrong as the screenshot shows. However, I got into the E lounge recently but I don’t remember if it was with UA, AC, or LX...
By
#14
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MD/DC
Programs: Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, TK Gold
Posts: 1,536
At airports where neither a Star Alliance branded lounge nor a Star Alliance member carrier offers a lounge, third party lounges are contracted by some of our member airlines. As a Star Alliance Gold customer travelling on a Star Alliance member airlines operated flight from such airports, you may have access to these third party contract lounges. Please refer to the Lounge Finder to identify which lounges you may have access to, according to the policy of each airline*.
#15
Join Date: May 2000
Location: HFA
Posts: 1,712
This is totally outdated. There was a short period during which the E lounge at TLV was available to business class pax (but not Star gold flying Y); but in the last few months, it's only open to LATAM and, more recently, BA pax.
Shuly
Shuly