LH Group and TK to end codeshare agreement
Dec 23, 2013, 2:25 am
#31
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA / San Francisco, CA
Programs: BA Gold, TK Elite Plus
Posts: 1,150
Anybody wonder why TK can expand the way they do AND post better results evry quarter,ever heard abouth such a thing in the history of aviation?,come to think abouth it, in the history of any rapidly expanding company,particularly in a very cash intensive and competetitive sector?? The gulf cariers did expand in a similar way,BUT,they posted negative results evry year,thats a common "law" of very rapid expantion.
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Dec 27, 2013, 9:59 am
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IST - NYC
Posts: 776
True, this made the rounds ages ago. One wonders though given the current LH childish spat with TK whether this is the most appropriate thing to say.
This coming from a company that gave us NEK, the dreaded slope on shiny new A380s, abandoned regional routes and shunted folks (and staff) onto Germanwings, P fare with zilch earning potential and "enhanced" its own FF programme to the bone.
If LH keep blaming everyone else (Gulf carriers, TK) but themselves they really can't be helped.
This coming from a company that gave us NEK, the dreaded slope on shiny new A380s, abandoned regional routes and shunted folks (and staff) onto Germanwings, P fare with zilch earning potential and "enhanced" its own FF programme to the bone.
If LH keep blaming everyone else (Gulf carriers, TK) but themselves they really can't be helped.
On the other hand, LH has some loyalists who embrace every enhancement that they are downgraded to. Yesterday I was on a flight from Germany to IST. We had the standard euro cabin where the middle seat is blocked. The lady behind me complained to the poor FA about the seat and what a difference it would be to the very luxurious offering that LH has
Dec 27, 2013, 12:58 pm
#33
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: TK Elite Plus, SAS EBG, QR Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,301
Couldn't agree more.
On the other hand, LH has some loyalists who embrace every enhancement that they are downgraded to. Yesterday I was on a flight from Germany to IST. We had the standard euro cabin where the middle seat is blocked. The lady behind me complained to the poor FA about the seat and what a difference it would be to the very luxurious offering that LH has
On the other hand, LH has some loyalists who embrace every enhancement that they are downgraded to. Yesterday I was on a flight from Germany to IST. We had the standard euro cabin where the middle seat is blocked. The lady behind me complained to the poor FA about the seat and what a difference it would be to the very luxurious offering that LH has
Jan 1, 2014, 4:31 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Cyprus
Programs: LH SEN, A3*G, TK*G E+, ALL/Accor Plat
Posts: 645
LH has quite a sophisticated system for distinguishing lesser *Gs from others - they know and recognise the difference between TK Elite and Elite+ cards. When flying LH economy, I almost always get one of the sen seats (often with blocked middle seat) in the second and third rows of the economy cabin. There appears to be some sort of 'honorary' sen status if you fly frequently on LH with a non-LH *G card. Also, I was recently allowed into the sen lounge at TXL.
Jan 2, 2014, 2:20 am
#35
Moderator, Turkish Airlines Miles&Smiles & Accor ALL
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BRU
Programs: TK*G, Accor ALL Platinum
Posts: 7,624
LH has quite a sophisticated system for distinguishing lesser *Gs from others - they know and recognise the difference between TK Elite and Elite+ cards. When flying LH economy, I almost always get one of the sen seats (often with blocked middle seat) in the second and third rows of the economy cabin. There appears to be some sort of 'honorary' sen status if you fly frequently on LH with a non-LH *G card. Also, I was recently allowed into the sen lounge at TXL.
LH SEN lounges are all *G lounges (so far) so access was never a problem.
Jan 2, 2014, 3:19 am
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IST - NYC
Posts: 776
LH has quite a sophisticated system for distinguishing lesser *Gs from others - they know and recognise the difference between TK Elite and Elite+ cards. When flying LH economy, I almost always get one of the sen seats (often with blocked middle seat) in the second and third rows of the economy cabin. There appears to be some sort of 'honorary' sen status if you fly frequently on LH with a non-LH *G card. Also, I was recently allowed into the sen lounge at TXL.
Jan 2, 2014, 3:31 am
#37
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,562
Let me assure you LH doesn't give a damn about *Gs and especially TK's and starting soon you'll have to pay for a seat assignment http://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/pre...icle/2638.html
Further information may be found here.
Jan 2, 2014, 4:59 am
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IST - NYC
Posts: 776
During my last visit to a SEN lounge I was afraid that they would by now have built in a trap-door for TK *G at the entrance, yet LH staff takes good care of all *G status passengers as usual. That is at least my experience.
Jan 12, 2014, 12:52 pm
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IST - NYC
Posts: 776
LH purser says TK has to leave * for violating rules
I just took a LH flight. The purser welcomed everyone in the C cabin and asked me if I could tell him why I collect my miles with TK. (Usually I credit me LH flights to UA, however I obviously made an error)
He was very nice and also asked how they compare to LH for ground, in flight and customer service experience.
We chatted for about half an hour. At the end of the conversation he said that I should be lucky that I also have a UA status card as TK's * membership will be terminated for violating rules.
I just replied that I am more under the impression of the LH management brain washing their staff rather than TK violating rules of *membership.
It was my first flight in the new LH C and I added to my comment, that just offering a new mediocre C hardware will also not help regaining lost market share.
He was very nice and also asked how they compare to LH for ground, in flight and customer service experience.
We chatted for about half an hour. At the end of the conversation he said that I should be lucky that I also have a UA status card as TK's * membership will be terminated for violating rules.
I just replied that I am more under the impression of the LH management brain washing their staff rather than TK violating rules of *membership.
It was my first flight in the new LH C and I added to my comment, that just offering a new mediocre C hardware will also not help regaining lost market share.
Jan 13, 2014, 1:00 am
#40
Moderator, Turkish Airlines Miles&Smiles & Accor ALL
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BRU
Programs: TK*G, Accor ALL Platinum
Posts: 7,624
I just took a LH flight. The purser welcomed everyone in the C cabin and asked me if I could tell him why I collect my miles with TK. (Usually I credit me LH flights to UA, however I obviously made an error)
He was very nice and also asked how they compare to LH for ground, in flight and customer service experience.
We chatted for about half an hour. At the end of the conversation he said that I should be lucky that I also have a UA status card as TK's * membership will be terminated for violating rules.
I just replied that I am more under the impression of the LH management brain washing their staff rather than TK violating rules of *membership.
It was my first flight in the new LH C and I added to my comment, that just offering a new mediocre C hardware will also not help regaining lost market share.
He was very nice and also asked how they compare to LH for ground, in flight and customer service experience.
We chatted for about half an hour. At the end of the conversation he said that I should be lucky that I also have a UA status card as TK's * membership will be terminated for violating rules.
I just replied that I am more under the impression of the LH management brain washing their staff rather than TK violating rules of *membership.
It was my first flight in the new LH C and I added to my comment, that just offering a new mediocre C hardware will also not help regaining lost market share.
Not only are management self deluding themselves that TK are the cause of all their problems now they are spreading this mania to their staff.
Recently a LH manager told he that I should not forget that TK is 49% state own. So what? LH hasn't been a leader for years in any passenger facing services and most "enhancements" have been negative but of course none of those actions have contributed to passengers seeking alternatives.
I sense a whole script has been disseminated to discredit TK.
Ugly? Yes! Deluded? Definitely!
Jan 13, 2014, 9:38 am
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IST - NYC
Posts: 776
Recently a LH manager told he that I should not forget that TK is 49% state own. So what? LH hasn't been a leader for years in any passenger facing services and most "enhancements" have been negative but of course none of those actions have contributed to passengers seeking alternatives.
The question is if LH has the power to kick TK out of * and what other * members think about it.
Asiana for example now puts the OZ code on flights to and from Germany. They terminated the agreement with LH. If you want to go from Munich to Seoul, Asiana will now connect you through Istanbul. TK might also be an interesting partner for other * carriers like TG, SQ to connect with markets they currently don't serve.
Jan 15, 2014, 9:02 pm
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA. UA 1K, reluctant but * best in class * DL FO/MM. Former BA jumpseat rider and scourge of Dilbertian management and apologists. As LX might - and do - say: "....an experienced frequent flyer of international airlines"
Posts: 3,386
Star membership has the benefit - for TK - of trawling pax from other countries who might not otherwise select TK for historical reasons or simple ignorance. It works. The rapid growth at IST is not primarily being driven by the Turkish or short-haul market....just look at the TK route map/fleet from 2005 and compare with now.
Not coincidentally, TK is having the same effect on German consumers who see the product difference and cost difference between TK and LH. And who now see 332s arriving at FRA and DUS and want to ride it. Who wouldn't, vs. the LH CR7 or 319?
LH's corporate/institutional response seems strange and self-defeating but self-delusion is not confined to LH.... BA and LX can practice their share of it too. What they have all forgotten is precisely what they said..that their customers are "experienced frequent flyers of interational airlines" and therefore - among other things - discerning customers who know better value when they find it
I'm not saying LH has nothing to offer. I think it does...incredibly, LH is better at irop handling than most other EU airlines, if only because they have a denser network with more frequencies and partners than the others. It also has decent service in Y and J, from my experience, and I don't hate the slimline seats like some of you seem to.
But wishing away the TK challenge and behaving like an ostrich will have only one ultimate result.
Not coincidentally, TK is having the same effect on German consumers who see the product difference and cost difference between TK and LH. And who now see 332s arriving at FRA and DUS and want to ride it. Who wouldn't, vs. the LH CR7 or 319?
LH's corporate/institutional response seems strange and self-defeating but self-delusion is not confined to LH.... BA and LX can practice their share of it too. What they have all forgotten is precisely what they said..that their customers are "experienced frequent flyers of interational airlines" and therefore - among other things - discerning customers who know better value when they find it
I'm not saying LH has nothing to offer. I think it does...incredibly, LH is better at irop handling than most other EU airlines, if only because they have a denser network with more frequencies and partners than the others. It also has decent service in Y and J, from my experience, and I don't hate the slimline seats like some of you seem to.
But wishing away the TK challenge and behaving like an ostrich will have only one ultimate result.
Jun 12, 2014, 2:15 am
#44
Moderator, Turkish Airlines Miles&Smiles & Accor ALL
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: BRU
Programs: TK*G, Accor ALL Platinum
Posts: 7,624
Interesting, following the latest profit warning over at LH the WSJ makes a clear call for LH to revisit its attitude towards Turkish Airlines.
Originally Posted by WSJ
If you can't beat em', join 'em.
Deutsche Lufthansa AG has proved reluctant to partner with a Middle Eastern carrier despite unrelenting expansion at groups such as Emirates Airline and Turkish Airlines. But a profit warning Wednesday, which sent Lufthansa's shares down 14%, suggests it needs to reconsider
.....
But Lufthansa needs a new plan to deal with Middle Eastern competition to really take flight.
Deutsche Lufthansa AG has proved reluctant to partner with a Middle Eastern carrier despite unrelenting expansion at groups such as Emirates Airline and Turkish Airlines. But a profit warning Wednesday, which sent Lufthansa's shares down 14%, suggests it needs to reconsider
.....
But Lufthansa needs a new plan to deal with Middle Eastern competition to really take flight.
Jun 12, 2014, 5:06 am
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: IST - NYC
Posts: 776
Interesting, following the latest profit warning over at LH the WSJ makes a clear call for LH to revisit its attitude towards Turkish Airlines.
TK needed LH before they opened their own North American network.
I don't see what LH has to offer that could benefit TK.
The LH / TK partnership benefited TK to gain brand loyalty through
LH's FF base.
LH is in the fortunate situation connecting two major business centers in Germany
nonstop to most other major business centers around the globe.
Would LH rely on attracting customers through service or a good mileage program
it would be out of business pretty soon.
I think what TK needs is a strong partner in North America. In Asia they just signed
an agreement with Singapore Airlines which will help them to access the OZ/NZ market.
Other than that TK will be a very successful airline on its own.