Originally Posted by rkrishnan

So when my chance to go with my wheelchair mom came, I called
AI to reconfirm wheelchair assistance and were told rudely that
we will have to pay $15 extra !! Never heard of such a fee in any
other airline anywhere! .

Normal people do not notice it - but there is *NO* seating near
the checking counters at LA international !!

Originally Posted by CApreppie

Even before reading the report, I vowed to avoid AI at all costs. I have never heard anything good about them and their safety record leaves a lot to be desired. See www.airsafe.com.

Originally Posted by Doppy

Is there really a big time savings to taking this AI route versus, say, Cathay?

SFO-HKG-BOM is 9570 miles. If there's any layover, HKG is a great place to have one.

SFO-LAX-FRA-BOM is 10208 miles. Farther (though not by much), but you also have layovers in LAX (a terrible place for a layover) and in FRA.

Originally Posted by uastarflyer

Yes typically, you leave Day 1 and land in India Day 2 very late if going East.

If going west, you land in HKG late Day 2 (to use your example) and don't get to India until early Day 3.

In other words, it's typically about ~10-12 hours more travel time going west due to connection timings, wind, etc.

Originally Posted by rkrishnan

Just returned from a trip from San Francisco to Chennai by Air India.
The trip reads like a horror tale and am considering suing them and
just did a google search on Air India problems and lo! - as I suspected
there are many others who have faced serious issues!

First, we normally fly by airlines like Singapore/Luftansa most
of the time and this time we were purchaising something like 14
tickets and the agent suggested Air India because it was about
$200 cheaper than Singapore Air / Cathay flying from SF to Chennai.
The second attraction was that they had almost a non-stop
flight from LA to Mumbai - so the normal 12 hour wait in Singapore
we take will be cut down a lot.
This looked very attractive because I was escorting my mom
who was a wheelchair patient.
Still I was very reluctact but the agent said he had travelled in Jan'05
and things were fine with the revamped AI etc. etc. and I gave in.

The first sign of trouble : AI website does not work with firefox!

We were told AI will arrange all wheelchair help etc for my mom.

We were a big family but flying out and back on different dates.

First, my wife's flight was delayed 16 hours !!
We were never notified by AI though they had my cell phone #
in their system and home # too. We came to know about it
just when we were waiting in line at SF airport at United Air
counter (for SF->LA flight) and that too from a fellow passenger!
Frantic calls to AI's 800 # returned busy signal as expected!
Called my travel agent - he deparately tried AI and it took 1 hour
to confirm the delay! United Air was very unhelpful saying they
do not know of any delays - so either we checkin or just go off
the line and wait till we decide!
This was at 1pm at SF - the United flight to LA was at 3pm and
the AI136 flight form LA was supposed to be at 7pm but delayed
16 hours (ie. to next day)

Finally agent came through saying AI will provide hotel+food in LA
if we proceed to catch their 16 hour delayed flight - else agent
will rebook my United SF->LA flight for next morning 730am.
I did not trust AI - so we returned home lugging all the heavy
luggage etc. Woke up next day at 430am with sleeply kids and
sent them off at 730am.

AI136 delay was actually 18 hours that day!

So when my chance to go with my wheelchair mom came, I called
AI to reconfirm wheelchair assistance and were told rudely that
we will have to pay $15 extra !! Never heard of such a fee in any
other airline anywhere! I told them this was not mentioned when I
bought the ticket. She then asked me for doc certificate!
I have witnessed plain old folks who need to be escorted being
helped on wheelchair in Singapore Air and was baffled by this
Air India statement! I cant get a doc cert the day we fly!
I anyway agreed to the $15.
Unfortunately we could not get the 3pm united flight from SF
but only the 1230pm one - so we had to leave home at 9am
to catch the AI136 flight from LA at 7pm!! The time savings that
the agent touted vs. singapore air was now gone!

Reached LA - united air was very helpful with wheelchair assistance
but once we reached LA international terminal they took away the
wheelchair and said Air India will take care of us.
Normal people do not notice it - but there is *NO* seating near
the checking counters at LA international !!
There was long line for Air India. My mom waited a few mins and
wanted to sit down - I asked the security folks for a wheechair
- they told me to ask Air India staff - I went to the counter
person and asked for wheelchair and I was shocked to hear that
she has to wait till we checked in !! I explained the problem and
was told to talk to supervisor - I waited for 10mins to get the
supervisor and told him and he said we have to first checkin and
pay $15 extra and then only wheelchair will come - all because
of some lame excuse that wheelchair belongs to airport folks and
they cannot be called before we checkin !!!
None of that issue we had with United or Singapore or any other
airline in the past!
Meanwhile, a fellow german passenger who had broght some
carbod box as luggage let my mom sit on it !!
I was so furious that I tried to shout at the supervisor and the
only answer I got was that was the rule of the airport and he
could not do anything!!
I have never heard/seen such mistreatment of handicapped
persons anywhere in US and an following this up with AI and lawyers.

Since we took the earlier flight from SF to LA, we had a lot of time
in LA after checkin - and wanted to eat something at the restaurant
in the terminal - but guess what - the wheelchair person comes in
and says - "we need to take your mom to the gate right away" and
cannot wait for your food etc. - there is no food at the gate!
So we had to agree to go to the gate 4 hours earlier and I had to
fetch food for my mom - not to mention all the security screenings!
AI has *Extra* security screening right at the gate - but because
we were so early at the gate, that extra screening had not started
when we went to the gate - an hour before the flight we were all
thrown afar from the gate and asked to stand in line and be rescreened!

The flight AI136 from LA to Mumbai was to be at 710pm with boarding
to start earlier - we say the flight crew walk into the gate at 630pm
but even at 7pm the gate was simply closed - no
one from airline at the gate either and no announcements!

It got extremely noisy/hot with kids crying etc. and passengers
getting upset - a few gathered upfront at the gate and bad
mouthing Air India delays etc. ("even yesterday's flight was 4hours off",
"there has been no flight in time" etc.).
Finally a lone staff came to the gate and met the loud / angry folks
and simply said "I dont know why there is a delay - we simply wait to
hear from the crew and we have not - so gate cannot open till then
- just wait". On hearing a bunch of shouts, he did something which
no one expected - he said "Sorry - I dont work for Air India - I just
do what I am told - please take up your woes with Air India !!"
So Air India may have outsourced their LA checkin/gate work to
some other folks - and thus conveniently hidden themselves from
itrate passengers who now cannot even find the AI folks to complain to!!

So the gate finally opens at 830pm (1h20m late) and flight leaves
2 hours late. By now, my mom is very tired - it has been 12 hours
since we left home and she first tries to go to the bathroom - and
guess what - no paper towels !! yes!! - no water cups! nothing!
We call for help - towels come by.
Half the stewardesses are fine - the rest dont care for passengers
or ever their colleages. eg. one of them dropped a bunch of
post-meal dinner plates right in the aisle - it was a *big* mess.
In singapore air I had seen just once such an accident - but was
awed by how 3 or 4 other crew came immediately and cleaned up
the mess in just 1 minute! but in Air India the old stewardess was
left to fend for her own folly - other crew were stepping by/on
the mess but none would help clean it up. Becuase it was a big
mess, the stewardess who made the mess had to go to the
kitchen several times to bring several things and take time to
clean - it took over 15 mins just to clean it !!
Also throughout the flight, garbage from meal trays (like a spoon/
cup etc.) which fell on the aisle were left as is by the crew -
I have never seen such an attitude in any other airline!
To top it all, when the flight reached Frankfurt, my mom had to
go to bathroom urgently - and went in and backed out - I went
in and was perplexed to see *all* the toilets were filled with
garbage - not paper - but things like combs, soap bottles etc!
Looks like some enraged folk(s) may have done that - but when
I mentioned it to the hostess, she simply says "it is all by passengers!
what can we do!" - so my mom has to wait till the frankfurt cleanup
crew cleans the whole thing up!
Leaving frankfurt, suddenly they have 'no more' vegetarian meals for us!
We leave frankfurt 2 hours late and reach Mumbai 1 hour late
Our connecting AI660 flight to Chennai is delayed for us
(the person at the gate says confidently "dont worry sir, we
will delay all connecting flights" - sure, that is something they
are skilled at).

We reach Chennai at 930am - so now it is 36 hours since we left home!

and Yes - our checked in bags do not arrive!! We wait for an hour for
all bags to clear and ensure our bags did not come. Realize that none
of the LA passengers got their bags!

So suddenly there are 40 persons thumping at a desk - at the other end
is just a single Air India person using a 1900 tool (carbon paper) to
fill 2 forms in triplicate!! It gets maddenning by 11am.
The person takes all my luggage tage - but does not even give a
receipt for having take it. He gives preprinted slip of paper with a
couple of Chennai phone #s to call and says someone will call me
when luggage is found!

Since I had packed most of my handbags with mom's medicine, we did
not carry any extra clothes with us! (at least am happy to not have
trusted medicines to checkin bags!). So we get home past noon,
totally exhausted - I go and buy some emergency clothes to change.

No call from AI on bags.
Calling the AI # in the printed paper I was given - it is either busy
or rings just keep going.
Later around 4pm I finally manage to get to a person, he will look into
it and get back. He calls me at 5pm to say bags were messed up in
mumbai and have arrived in chennai and he will send them home tomorrow
since the day is closing! I tell him that I was leaving chennai that
evening and so needed the bags right away - he agrees and says
"my man is leaving right now - you will get the bags latest by 630pm"
No man every came at 630pm nor later - all calls to AI #s were just
ringing - no person to answer - I tried over several hours - then I
cancelled my further trips - and gave up and slept. At 1am I get a
call !! - it is a taxi driver trying to locate my house to deliver the bags!
I was so furious. He have a long story on why he was delayed from
630pm etc.

My whole travel plans were changed because of this since some
part of the family travelled ahead by then. It was a lot of work
and expense too to redo the plans.

Now, for the rest of the family which left LA a few days later,
their AI flight to chennai is cancelled! They have to clear customs
at Mumbai and lug their bags from international airport to domestic
airport and even there they are forced to take a later flight because
(yes!) the AI flight arrives 2 hours late at Mumbai.

So because of change in travel plans, I ask my company's
chennai travel agent to change my return date - he tries to
and says I need to go to their office with the ticket - this is
not so for Singapore Airlines for some years now!

Since I am travelling, I could go to Ai office only a couple of
days before my return flight to change the date - and I am
asked to pay $125 more. I get upset - no one told me about
the fee before. "Sir, this is the government rule! your agent
should have told you!" what! government rule!!
I want to meet the manager - now, manager tried to find the
rule in her computer but is unable to - she asks others - no
one is able to find the rule anywhere - so where is the rule
and who mentioned it first? ok - there is a thick file (4 inches)
with printed papers under the first person's desk - it says
"$125 fine for date change - but first change is free! - but
the free first change should be made 7 days before departure!"
wow - quite a catch - never ever heard of this from my agent!
So I will come back and ask agent to pay me back - I pay $125
and change the return date.

btw, my return flight from chennai leaves at 330am (yes am!)
while my flight from mumbai to LA leaves 7am -
so can I get on to some more convenient daytime flight from cheanni ?
yes - but you cannot check in luggage through!
I have to go by some local flight, keep luggage with me at my
expense and check it into AI counter for LA flight next day.
The counter opens only 4am! What? I have seen ADs which
say one can check in their bags 24 hours ahead !
"But sir that is at Nariman point in mumbai - so you can lug
your bags there and check them in between 10am and 5pm!"
Why dont you make it more convenient for non-Mumbai folks?
"Sir that is the government rule!"
yes - they are all government staff at their convenience!

I tell them i want to talk to their
senior most person in chennai office - as usual he is not in -
but was given his phone # - called him later - he quotes the
same "government rules" - I tell him at this point I am not only
talking about my own specific case but also suggesting him to
take this issue with their management - but pat comes the
reply "sir - this is how we work - you can write to our head office
with your suggestions - but these are government rules!"

I am still furious about the whole mess and the latenight baggage
episode - so I call back the baggage person who told me that
day I will get the bag at 630pm but did not - he is take aback
that someone would call him a month later to complain - I tell
him I was travelling and want to know how to file late baggage
claim - he tells me the rule. To my utter surprise within 30mins
I get a call from his manager asking about the problem. I explain
the whole thing - and here is the first person at AI who is
even listening to customer - he asks me to write a letter and
that he will process some small claim from my late bags - he says
if I had contacted him about the bag problem earlier and my
travel plan change due to that the $125 may have been waived
but now it too late to correct it. He also is kind to offer any
help for my mom's return (wheelchair assistance etc.)!

So we were all to return together on a saturday night - ie.
by 330am sunday flight from chennai. my travel agent calls
at 10am saturday and says my AI flight is cancelled - he gives
us a AI # to call. we call and find that is true - the
chennai-mumbai flight is cancelled but mumbai-LA flight
at 7am sunday is still on.
So they plan to rebook us from chennai to mumbai by some
other airline. but there are catches :
1. we need to come to their AI office immediately and get
our tickets reissued by 5pm !!
This is at 11am saturday just the last day before leaving
and we have a bunch of work piled up and dont have any
time to go to their office at this time!
2. chennai to mumbai last flight is at 9pm itself and
we will go to domestic airport in mumbai - then we need
to lug our bags from them to international airport and
wait till 4am to check it in at AI counter!!
I was red hot at that point - because I needed to also add
the contingenices for my wheelchair mom into all this!
I tell him to refund my entire ticket and tell him I will
rebook us all by some other airline.
He coolly says "sir, i am a lowly person at AI - I am told
what to do and dont care what you want to do!"
no wonder - they have their "government" badge to help
them in their job security!
But I had to return to US for work.
I call the travel agent to cancel/reschedule all other tickets
including my mom's. I am looking into how to go to their
AI office for my ticket.

I get a call again in 3 hours - "sir - good news - the cancelled
AI flight has been reinstated - so no need for you to change
anything! So I had to cancell/reschedule my mom/others
just at their whims! Never again will we travel Air India!

My return journey did not have the red hot spots - but the
problems like delays / service etc were there - the chennai
330am flight left at 530am - the flight from mumbai was
delayed too. The best part is that none of the flight attendant
call lights worked (the one you press to get their attention)
(I checked nearby seats too) - so it seems quite intentional
But at least the bags arrived at LA !
But since AI does not issue borading pass for United Air
LA->SF flight, I and other from my AI fligh had to wait
90mins (yes!) at united paper ticke line ! Some missed
their connecting flight because of some goof ups like
wrong line etc.

Some of the family is yet to return and so I keep my
fingers crossed.

What comes through in all is this are a couple of things :
1. AI has *severe* system problems
2. Most of their staff simply does not care while a few
do care and perhaps carry on the load of all others.
3. The time savings / ease of flying to India with no
layover etc. is total nonsense - the flight delays and
the time lost in connecting flights etc are far worse
than travel with long layovers (like in singapore).
4. The hassles we have to go through in AI is simply
not worth the $200 savings.

Originally Posted by tomber

Insanely long quote removed...

Originally Posted by Ankush09

THANK GOD! It has departed from Birmingham and will take another 6 hours and 50 minutes to reach YYZ. Then 90 minutes later we will hopefully board the flight.

Originally Posted by fallinasleep

But unless you are doing a RTW, wouldn't wind be a non-issue for a round trip, and I don't think the connections are necessarily any better via the Atlantic with the possible exception of flying BA. Also by going via the Pacific, you get to transit better airports (i.e., Hong Kong and Singapore) versus Heathrow and Frankfurt and fly on generally more service-oriented carriers.

Originally Posted by tomber

When we first called Air India on an 800 number a recorded message on August 1st indicated that the delayed flight (#111 on 7/31) was due to arrive at 11:30 pm on 8/1. Later that day, calls were routed to Mumbay, where eventually I talked to an Indian lady (not very good English) who told me that flight 111 had an emergency landing in New Delhi. So I asked her, when the flight would get to London. She did not know.