OK, I'm now officially spoiled... New York to LA on a Gulfstream-IV
Feb 13, 2016, 6:04 am
#17
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Location: Denver • DEN-APA
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It seemed like most of the pax of my flight bought memberships only recently and this was their first HPN-VNY flight. One of the women bought 4 memberships (for herself, her daughters and her nanny). So Jetsmarter got $40K net from her after the referral credit. But they just did Chicago and she plans on on flying regular shuttle routes with the family and nanny... Chicago, Florida, LA. After a couple of months of this, JS will burn thru that $40K.
Nice to see you gave the cross country shuttle a try and are still enjoying the membership. The loss of Travel Management was a bummer for me. I was only interested in the private jets, mostly for ski trips during the winter … an opportunity that never came as that relationship terminated just as ski season started. As I told JetSmarter, there’s a fairly large and established industry that does shared flights and those existing operators allow me to plan more than 5 hours in advance …
The Travel Management crews were excellent. They treated you like a paying customer and it was a first class operation. The pilots came to chat during the flight to make sure everything was okay, offered to carry your bags when boarding and departing, and on occasion even laid out a red carpet. XO is a bit of a different experience. The XO staff sees a bunch of people who don’t know each other show up and treat you like you’re taking a free ride … I assume Delta Jets will be the same.
I was booked on AA Flt #125 JFK-LAX last Sunday and there was the JetSmarter shuttle operating. I considered it for about a half a second and then decided to stick with my first class seat. A fully loaded G-IV is basically a step above economy as far as I’m concerned with the main redeeming quality here being that it is free. If I ever saw one with only a couple passengers a few hours prior to departure and my schedule was clear, that I may consider.
I’m not sure if its greater awareness on my part, but it seems more of the charter providers are trying to fill their empty legs. FlyEasy has a couple big operators with great aircraft (Clay Lacy for one) on their software platform and I’ve seen some stuff marketed aggressively. I’d rather take a few of these per year with advanced scheduling versus the JetSmarter 5 hours advance notice gimmick.
My membership lasts until July so maybe something will happen that impresses me, but at this point I’ll most likely cancel it. Part of that is the value proposition just isn’t there without the exclusive use charters, and the other part is I don’t think this company is going to be around long. Per Centurion’s question there is no way this is financially viable. They are banking on people who buy it and don’t use it, BS ancillary fees (e.g., no shows), or thinking it’s going to generate them actual charter business … Operating the round trip on a G-IV is going to be $40,000+ (I’m assuming they received extremely favorable terms and have a deal to channel other business to the operator). But you have 26 seats per round trip. That means each seat is costing $1,600. Assume the average member is going to fly a round trip and their cost is at least $3,200 for taking one round trip flight (and it spikes if the planes going out partially full). So if I take one flight it cost them half my membership cost. And not even taking into account their overhead with all these new offices they are opening and staff they are hiring. Now if I take a second …
I realize they raised $20 MM recently, but it’d appear they are burning it in a hurry!
The Travel Management crews were excellent. They treated you like a paying customer and it was a first class operation. The pilots came to chat during the flight to make sure everything was okay, offered to carry your bags when boarding and departing, and on occasion even laid out a red carpet. XO is a bit of a different experience. The XO staff sees a bunch of people who don’t know each other show up and treat you like you’re taking a free ride … I assume Delta Jets will be the same.
I was booked on AA Flt #125 JFK-LAX last Sunday and there was the JetSmarter shuttle operating. I considered it for about a half a second and then decided to stick with my first class seat. A fully loaded G-IV is basically a step above economy as far as I’m concerned with the main redeeming quality here being that it is free. If I ever saw one with only a couple passengers a few hours prior to departure and my schedule was clear, that I may consider.
I’m not sure if its greater awareness on my part, but it seems more of the charter providers are trying to fill their empty legs. FlyEasy has a couple big operators with great aircraft (Clay Lacy for one) on their software platform and I’ve seen some stuff marketed aggressively. I’d rather take a few of these per year with advanced scheduling versus the JetSmarter 5 hours advance notice gimmick.
My membership lasts until July so maybe something will happen that impresses me, but at this point I’ll most likely cancel it. Part of that is the value proposition just isn’t there without the exclusive use charters, and the other part is I don’t think this company is going to be around long. Per Centurion’s question there is no way this is financially viable. They are banking on people who buy it and don’t use it, BS ancillary fees (e.g., no shows), or thinking it’s going to generate them actual charter business … Operating the round trip on a G-IV is going to be $40,000+ (I’m assuming they received extremely favorable terms and have a deal to channel other business to the operator). But you have 26 seats per round trip. That means each seat is costing $1,600. Assume the average member is going to fly a round trip and their cost is at least $3,200 for taking one round trip flight (and it spikes if the planes going out partially full). So if I take one flight it cost them half my membership cost. And not even taking into account their overhead with all these new offices they are opening and staff they are hiring. Now if I take a second …
I realize they raised $20 MM recently, but it’d appear they are burning it in a hurry!
Like you, I'll do shared plane but only it there is max 1 or 2 other pax. I've thought about waiting until last minute to make sure no one else books, or just buying the other seats... since you get 5 free seats on a light, 3 on a midsize. Or buying my wife a membership so we can book the entire light or midsize.
As for the experience itself, a full loaded G4 is not as comfortable as AA First but then again, IMO the departure and arrival experience is better than commercial. The bus-like helicopter service notwithstanding, it's tough to beat driving the car up to the plane. The bus to the plane thing at HPN may be a one off as other traffic prevented the G4 from parking closer to the FBO door and wind chills were below zero. The G4 is getting a little old and not as nice at the newer Hawker 800/850 and Challengers.
I've also seen other operators being more aggressive although my local jet card company JetLinx thinks a good empty deal is 35% off of regular rates. LOL. Good luck on that.
My membership renews in May and I'll probably re-up especially at the old grandfathered rate and given the new planned Denver-LA shuttles. Maybe even add a membership for my wife if we get a 2nd place in SoCal. Will they be around in a couple of years? Who knows. I'm sure they'll attract investor money. The pleasant couple beside us was from Saudi Arabia. Claimed he was an investor.
Yes, it's in the back of the plane...
Last edited by SFO777; Feb 13, 2016 at 6:46 am
Feb 13, 2016, 1:21 pm
#18
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MIA
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Posts: 1,798
Definitely worth a try, but I have to agree if I were commuting to PIT regularly from the West Coast, I would have just gone with a commercial connection or n/s right to DEN. That 'shuttle' flight looks tighter than the Embraers DL/AA has got going to LGA; and that's only a forty minute flight.
I also looked at this service based upon your trip reports, $7K is a total bargain, but I'm not sure about the viability based upon the regulatory environment. I thought I heard a story on NPR the other day that FAA was looking at regulating these 'Uber' plane-sharing services and that would affect future operating abilities/costs.
Regardless, thanks again for sharing.
Feb 13, 2016, 3:17 pm
#21
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Thanks for the report.
I am about to take my fifth JetSmarter flight tomorrow. And I have to admit that it has exceeded my expectations. I will likely renew in the fall when it comes up for renewal.
The business model has changed but I think it is moving in the right direction. As of the moment, for the shuttles, the model is to schedule a certain number of shuttles per week, then have an option for someone to buy a shuttle service on an additional day at a very reasonable cost, knowing that they can fill the shuttle with other members. This seems very calculated from a cost perspective, as they can manage the number of set flights and modify the initial flight costs for the added flights. It is simply a matter of when you book, and that you have a limit of how many reservations you can have active at any one time. This, in my opinion, is extremely manageable from a cost perspective. The only question I have is what happens if the price of fuel goes up significantly. Low oil prices are sustaining the business model.
In addition, for the JetDeals (aka empty legs), they purchase those at an extremely affordable price. In Europe, I can often buy one of those JetDeals on the open market for reasonable (e.g. 800 euros a plane), and I'm sure that JetSmarter gets a better deal due to volume discounts. So lets assume they get 50% off, at 400 euros, they can certainly make up the profit. Thus, I don't really agree that the business model isn't manageable. In fact, it seems that you can really make the spreadsheet work, particularly as they learn more.
In terms of the shared flights, I see one of the values of the smaller plane is in all the additional stuff you need to deal with when flying which don't exist with JetSmarter. Yes, you need to share, but you also save lots of time on either end. And you do it at a fixed price per year. So I'm sold. I am looking forward to having JetShuttles in Europe.
Last comment, I think they are also going to move toward selling this subscription to companies, which makes sense. There are a lot of Enterprises that would benefit from the service. That may change the model over time, especially with JetShuttles.
I am about to take my fifth JetSmarter flight tomorrow. And I have to admit that it has exceeded my expectations. I will likely renew in the fall when it comes up for renewal.
The business model has changed but I think it is moving in the right direction. As of the moment, for the shuttles, the model is to schedule a certain number of shuttles per week, then have an option for someone to buy a shuttle service on an additional day at a very reasonable cost, knowing that they can fill the shuttle with other members. This seems very calculated from a cost perspective, as they can manage the number of set flights and modify the initial flight costs for the added flights. It is simply a matter of when you book, and that you have a limit of how many reservations you can have active at any one time. This, in my opinion, is extremely manageable from a cost perspective. The only question I have is what happens if the price of fuel goes up significantly. Low oil prices are sustaining the business model.
In addition, for the JetDeals (aka empty legs), they purchase those at an extremely affordable price. In Europe, I can often buy one of those JetDeals on the open market for reasonable (e.g. 800 euros a plane), and I'm sure that JetSmarter gets a better deal due to volume discounts. So lets assume they get 50% off, at 400 euros, they can certainly make up the profit. Thus, I don't really agree that the business model isn't manageable. In fact, it seems that you can really make the spreadsheet work, particularly as they learn more.
In terms of the shared flights, I see one of the values of the smaller plane is in all the additional stuff you need to deal with when flying which don't exist with JetSmarter. Yes, you need to share, but you also save lots of time on either end. And you do it at a fixed price per year. So I'm sold. I am looking forward to having JetShuttles in Europe.
Last comment, I think they are also going to move toward selling this subscription to companies, which makes sense. There are a lot of Enterprises that would benefit from the service. That may change the model over time, especially with JetShuttles.
Feb 13, 2016, 3:23 pm
#22
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But once you lock in your annual fee, it never goes up for the life of the program.
Feb 13, 2016, 4:36 pm
#23
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 147
SFO777 – I guess there’s no reason for you to pay JetLinx as those show up in JetSmarter anyway! Basically everything on their one way flight specials page shows up about 36 hours prior to departure in JetSmarter …
Have you ever tried the hard bargain with the operator when you saw a flight and said “Hey, if the jets still available and you want to fill it let me know 24 hour prior to departure and I’ll pay $2,000 (or something similar depending on where it’s going) …” ?
I have considered buying out the aircraft, but at the end of the day it really changes the economics and what’s worthwhile. I could jet off to Sun Valley, ski two days, pay for a flight home, and be into it under $2,000. Jet off to Scottsdale, play a round of golf, and be into it under $1,000. Now if I want the plane going to Sun Valley to be private I’d have to buy out the extra 5 seats at around $660 per. Now my two-day unplanned, quick getaway is $5,500. And suddenly I’m less enthused. And if sharing a plane with strangers, why not just share the Alaska plane when I can at least plan ahead of time with friends and family?
oenophilist – I’m not arguing the empty leg business model. I think there is a market there. But the shuttles are stupid and will fail. A number of airlines used to offer unlimited use flight passes and their cost per seat is far lower than these shuttles JetSmarter is running. I don’t think any of the unlimited use passes are still offered today and there’s a reason for that. This isn’t an insurance pool where lots of people sign up and only a few use it making it workable. I renew my unused insurance because I may need it. If I don’t use my JetSmarter membership, I don’t keep it. So the only people with a JetSmarter membership are going to be those using it. In addition JetSmarter is marketing the shuttles now as the empty legs turned to crap since January 1 and only just improved this week. So the people who have been signing up are those who want to use those shuttles and intend to. Take that $1,600 per seat price estimate for LA-NY. If someone flies 6 trips (3 round trips) JetSmarter has a negative gross profit (and deep red on net profit with all their overhead). The NY-FL shuttles are certainly cheaper on a per cost basis, but even at half on a per seat basis it’s 6 round trips into the red on gross profit. And there are big time users in the mix taking these flights. There’s a guy who uses the LA-SF flight every week. And I’ve heard there are similar people on the east coast shuttles that are booking monthly or more frequently.
Back to the empty leg model, I have no inside information on this, but I don’t think JetSmarter pays per use. I know that’s not the way I’d try to structure the deal. Look let’s say you can get 2,000 customers paying $7,000/year to sign up for empty leg access. That’s $14 MM in revenue. Then you go to each Travel Management, XO, Delta, etc. and say I’ll give you $2 MM, 3 MM, whatever the number is cash each year to give me all your empty legs at the 36 hour mark (and obviously the contract has requirements for number of flights offered, hours offered, etc.). That’s a decent little business. But it’s not a billion dollar business and never will be, which JetSmarter thinks they are going to be. So they try to grow … and unless there’s something I’m missing or completely uninformed on with the economics, there’s just no way the shuttles are profitable long-term unless you churn customers who subscribe and don’t’ use it—which I don’t think will happen.
Have you ever tried the hard bargain with the operator when you saw a flight and said “Hey, if the jets still available and you want to fill it let me know 24 hour prior to departure and I’ll pay $2,000 (or something similar depending on where it’s going) …” ?
I have considered buying out the aircraft, but at the end of the day it really changes the economics and what’s worthwhile. I could jet off to Sun Valley, ski two days, pay for a flight home, and be into it under $2,000. Jet off to Scottsdale, play a round of golf, and be into it under $1,000. Now if I want the plane going to Sun Valley to be private I’d have to buy out the extra 5 seats at around $660 per. Now my two-day unplanned, quick getaway is $5,500. And suddenly I’m less enthused. And if sharing a plane with strangers, why not just share the Alaska plane when I can at least plan ahead of time with friends and family?
oenophilist – I’m not arguing the empty leg business model. I think there is a market there. But the shuttles are stupid and will fail. A number of airlines used to offer unlimited use flight passes and their cost per seat is far lower than these shuttles JetSmarter is running. I don’t think any of the unlimited use passes are still offered today and there’s a reason for that. This isn’t an insurance pool where lots of people sign up and only a few use it making it workable. I renew my unused insurance because I may need it. If I don’t use my JetSmarter membership, I don’t keep it. So the only people with a JetSmarter membership are going to be those using it. In addition JetSmarter is marketing the shuttles now as the empty legs turned to crap since January 1 and only just improved this week. So the people who have been signing up are those who want to use those shuttles and intend to. Take that $1,600 per seat price estimate for LA-NY. If someone flies 6 trips (3 round trips) JetSmarter has a negative gross profit (and deep red on net profit with all their overhead). The NY-FL shuttles are certainly cheaper on a per cost basis, but even at half on a per seat basis it’s 6 round trips into the red on gross profit. And there are big time users in the mix taking these flights. There’s a guy who uses the LA-SF flight every week. And I’ve heard there are similar people on the east coast shuttles that are booking monthly or more frequently.
Back to the empty leg model, I have no inside information on this, but I don’t think JetSmarter pays per use. I know that’s not the way I’d try to structure the deal. Look let’s say you can get 2,000 customers paying $7,000/year to sign up for empty leg access. That’s $14 MM in revenue. Then you go to each Travel Management, XO, Delta, etc. and say I’ll give you $2 MM, 3 MM, whatever the number is cash each year to give me all your empty legs at the 36 hour mark (and obviously the contract has requirements for number of flights offered, hours offered, etc.). That’s a decent little business. But it’s not a billion dollar business and never will be, which JetSmarter thinks they are going to be. So they try to grow … and unless there’s something I’m missing or completely uninformed on with the economics, there’s just no way the shuttles are profitable long-term unless you churn customers who subscribe and don’t’ use it—which I don’t think will happen.
Feb 13, 2016, 5:25 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
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Posts: 21,610
Thanks for posting the sharing economy version of 'Planes, Trains and Automobiles'
Definitely worth a try, but I have to agree if I were commuting to PIT regularly from the West Coast, I would have just gone with a commercial connection or n/s right to DEN. That 'shuttle' flight looks tighter than the Embraers DL/AA has got going to LGA; and that's only a forty minute flight.
I also looked at this service based upon your trip reports, $7K is a total bargain, but I'm not sure about the viability based upon the regulatory environment. I thought I heard a story on NPR the other day that FAA was looking at regulating these 'Uber' plane-sharing services and that would affect future operating abilities/costs.
Regardless, thanks again for sharing.
Definitely worth a try, but I have to agree if I were commuting to PIT regularly from the West Coast, I would have just gone with a commercial connection or n/s right to DEN. That 'shuttle' flight looks tighter than the Embraers DL/AA has got going to LGA; and that's only a forty minute flight.
I also looked at this service based upon your trip reports, $7K is a total bargain, but I'm not sure about the viability based upon the regulatory environment. I thought I heard a story on NPR the other day that FAA was looking at regulating these 'Uber' plane-sharing services and that would affect future operating abilities/costs.
Regardless, thanks again for sharing.
Thanks very much hugolover. They used to have great FL coverage with their first charter partner. Still reasonably good, plus they have the MIA/PBI/FLL-TEB shuttles.
Feb 13, 2016, 6:08 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
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Posts: 21,610
Thanks for the report.
I am about to take my fifth JetSmarter flight tomorrow. And I have to admit that it has exceeded my expectations. I will likely renew in the fall when it comes up for renewal.
The business model has changed but I think it is moving in the right direction. As of the moment, for the shuttles, the model is to schedule a certain number of shuttles per week, then have an option for someone to buy a shuttle service on an additional day at a very reasonable cost, knowing that they can fill the shuttle with other members. This seems very calculated from a cost perspective, as they can manage the number of set flights and modify the initial flight costs for the added flights. It is simply a matter of when you book, and that you have a limit of how many reservations you can have active at any one time. This, in my opinion, is extremely manageable from a cost perspective. The only question I have is what happens if the price of fuel goes up significantly. Low oil prices are sustaining the business model.
In addition, for the JetDeals (aka empty legs), they purchase those at an extremely affordable price. In Europe, I can often buy one of those JetDeals on the open market for reasonable (e.g. 800 euros a plane), and I'm sure that JetSmarter gets a better deal due to volume discounts. So lets assume they get 50% off, at 400 euros, they can certainly make up the profit. Thus, I don't really agree that the business model isn't manageable. In fact, it seems that you can really make the spreadsheet work, particularly as they learn more.
In terms of the shared flights, I see one of the values of the smaller plane is in all the additional stuff you need to deal with when flying which don't exist with JetSmarter. Yes, you need to share, but you also save lots of time on either end. And you do it at a fixed price per year. So I'm sold. I am looking forward to having JetShuttles in Europe.
Last comment, I think they are also going to move toward selling this subscription to companies, which makes sense. There are a lot of Enterprises that would benefit from the service. That may change the model over time, especially with JetShuttles.
I am about to take my fifth JetSmarter flight tomorrow. And I have to admit that it has exceeded my expectations. I will likely renew in the fall when it comes up for renewal.
The business model has changed but I think it is moving in the right direction. As of the moment, for the shuttles, the model is to schedule a certain number of shuttles per week, then have an option for someone to buy a shuttle service on an additional day at a very reasonable cost, knowing that they can fill the shuttle with other members. This seems very calculated from a cost perspective, as they can manage the number of set flights and modify the initial flight costs for the added flights. It is simply a matter of when you book, and that you have a limit of how many reservations you can have active at any one time. This, in my opinion, is extremely manageable from a cost perspective. The only question I have is what happens if the price of fuel goes up significantly. Low oil prices are sustaining the business model.
In addition, for the JetDeals (aka empty legs), they purchase those at an extremely affordable price. In Europe, I can often buy one of those JetDeals on the open market for reasonable (e.g. 800 euros a plane), and I'm sure that JetSmarter gets a better deal due to volume discounts. So lets assume they get 50% off, at 400 euros, they can certainly make up the profit. Thus, I don't really agree that the business model isn't manageable. In fact, it seems that you can really make the spreadsheet work, particularly as they learn more.
In terms of the shared flights, I see one of the values of the smaller plane is in all the additional stuff you need to deal with when flying which don't exist with JetSmarter. Yes, you need to share, but you also save lots of time on either end. And you do it at a fixed price per year. So I'm sold. I am looking forward to having JetShuttles in Europe.
Last comment, I think they are also going to move toward selling this subscription to companies, which makes sense. There are a lot of Enterprises that would benefit from the service. That may change the model over time, especially with JetShuttles.
I'm with mrfussion on the shuttles. I just don't see how they are sustainable. The NYC-based members I met on my flight plan on flying those LA-NY shuttles frequently. Indeed, at least three of them were coming back on Monday's Citation X. From a revenue standpoint, I just can't see many people paying the non-member price of $4,990 for one seat on a full G4. At $0, I think it's a great deal. $5K, not so much. So how much incremental revenue are they really going to get from the shuttles.
I love the empty leg model and think that model or a variation is sustainable. Although I don't like it, I understand the move to a shared empty leg concept. I would consider paying more and buying out the plane to keep it private. But more likely, I'll buy my wife a membership so we can "buy out" a light or midsize at no extra cost. Plus, we'll be able to get the LA-Denver shuttles for free.
Feb 13, 2016, 6:33 pm
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
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Posts: 21,610
SFO777 – I guess there’s no reason for you to pay JetLinx as those show up in JetSmarter anyway! Basically everything on their one way flight specials page shows up about 36 hours prior to departure in JetSmarter …
Have you ever tried the hard bargain with the operator when you saw a flight and said “Hey, if the jets still available and you want to fill it let me know 24 hour prior to departure and I’ll pay $2,000 (or something similar depending on where it’s going) …” ?
I have considered buying out the aircraft, but at the end of the day it really changes the economics and what’s worthwhile. I could jet off to Sun Valley, ski two days, pay for a flight home, and be into it under $2,000. Jet off to Scottsdale, play a round of golf, and be into it under $1,000. Now if I want the plane going to Sun Valley to be private I’d have to buy out the extra 5 seats at around $660 per. Now my two-day unplanned, quick getaway is $5,500. And suddenly I’m less enthused. And if sharing a plane with strangers, why not just share the Alaska plane when I can at least plan ahead of time with friends and family?
oenophilist – I’m not arguing the empty leg business model. I think there is a market there. But the shuttles are stupid and will fail. A number of airlines used to offer unlimited use flight passes and their cost per seat is far lower than these shuttles JetSmarter is running. I don’t think any of the unlimited use passes are still offered today and there’s a reason for that. This isn’t an insurance pool where lots of people sign up and only a few use it making it workable. I renew my unused insurance because I may need it. If I don’t use my JetSmarter membership, I don’t keep it. So the only people with a JetSmarter membership are going to be those using it. In addition JetSmarter is marketing the shuttles now as the empty legs turned to crap since January 1 and only just improved this week. So the people who have been signing up are those who want to use those shuttles and intend to. Take that $1,600 per seat price estimate for LA-NY. If someone flies 6 trips (3 round trips) JetSmarter has a negative gross profit (and deep red on net profit with all their overhead). The NY-FL shuttles are certainly cheaper on a per cost basis, but even at half on a per seat basis it’s 6 round trips into the red on gross profit. And there are big time users in the mix taking these flights. There’s a guy who uses the LA-SF flight every week. And I’ve heard there are similar people on the east coast shuttles that are booking monthly or more frequently.
Back to the empty leg model, I have no inside information on this, but I don’t think JetSmarter pays per use. I know that’s not the way I’d try to structure the deal. Look let’s say you can get 2,000 customers paying $7,000/year to sign up for empty leg access. That’s $14 MM in revenue. Then you go to each Travel Management, XO, Delta, etc. and say I’ll give you $2 MM, 3 MM, whatever the number is cash each year to give me all your empty legs at the 36 hour mark (and obviously the contract has requirements for number of flights offered, hours offered, etc.). That’s a decent little business. But it’s not a billion dollar business and never will be, which JetSmarter thinks they are going to be. So they try to grow … and unless there’s something I’m missing or completely uninformed on with the economics, there’s just no way the shuttles are profitable long-term unless you churn customers who subscribe and don’t’ use it—which I don’t think will happen.
Have you ever tried the hard bargain with the operator when you saw a flight and said “Hey, if the jets still available and you want to fill it let me know 24 hour prior to departure and I’ll pay $2,000 (or something similar depending on where it’s going) …” ?
I have considered buying out the aircraft, but at the end of the day it really changes the economics and what’s worthwhile. I could jet off to Sun Valley, ski two days, pay for a flight home, and be into it under $2,000. Jet off to Scottsdale, play a round of golf, and be into it under $1,000. Now if I want the plane going to Sun Valley to be private I’d have to buy out the extra 5 seats at around $660 per. Now my two-day unplanned, quick getaway is $5,500. And suddenly I’m less enthused. And if sharing a plane with strangers, why not just share the Alaska plane when I can at least plan ahead of time with friends and family?
oenophilist – I’m not arguing the empty leg business model. I think there is a market there. But the shuttles are stupid and will fail. A number of airlines used to offer unlimited use flight passes and their cost per seat is far lower than these shuttles JetSmarter is running. I don’t think any of the unlimited use passes are still offered today and there’s a reason for that. This isn’t an insurance pool where lots of people sign up and only a few use it making it workable. I renew my unused insurance because I may need it. If I don’t use my JetSmarter membership, I don’t keep it. So the only people with a JetSmarter membership are going to be those using it. In addition JetSmarter is marketing the shuttles now as the empty legs turned to crap since January 1 and only just improved this week. So the people who have been signing up are those who want to use those shuttles and intend to. Take that $1,600 per seat price estimate for LA-NY. If someone flies 6 trips (3 round trips) JetSmarter has a negative gross profit (and deep red on net profit with all their overhead). The NY-FL shuttles are certainly cheaper on a per cost basis, but even at half on a per seat basis it’s 6 round trips into the red on gross profit. And there are big time users in the mix taking these flights. There’s a guy who uses the LA-SF flight every week. And I’ve heard there are similar people on the east coast shuttles that are booking monthly or more frequently.
Back to the empty leg model, I have no inside information on this, but I don’t think JetSmarter pays per use. I know that’s not the way I’d try to structure the deal. Look let’s say you can get 2,000 customers paying $7,000/year to sign up for empty leg access. That’s $14 MM in revenue. Then you go to each Travel Management, XO, Delta, etc. and say I’ll give you $2 MM, 3 MM, whatever the number is cash each year to give me all your empty legs at the 36 hour mark (and obviously the contract has requirements for number of flights offered, hours offered, etc.). That’s a decent little business. But it’s not a billion dollar business and never will be, which JetSmarter thinks they are going to be. So they try to grow … and unless there’s something I’m missing or completely uninformed on with the economics, there’s just no way the shuttles are profitable long-term unless you churn customers who subscribe and don’t’ use it—which I don’t think will happen.
Agree that buying out the plane can start to move it to unattractive pretty quickly. Since Mrs. SFO777 has no interest in flying with strangers, that adds up unless I get her a membership. My understanding is that with TMI, they were paying $500 per empty leg. But that's a moot point now.
Feb 13, 2016, 10:51 pm
#27
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 13
SFO777 I'm glad you are enjoying our charter company aircraft. You are very lucky to catch N124TF, she just came out from heavy maintenance and upgrade 2 months ago.
I had a feeling you might be on one of our GIV before I see any pics, as I know a lot of our planes are doing NY to CA run. But have no idea that is what she been doing/
Check out the company website for more info.
http://windsorjet.com/
I had a feeling you might be on one of our GIV before I see any pics, as I know a lot of our planes are doing NY to CA run. But have no idea that is what she been doing/
Check out the company website for more info.
http://windsorjet.com/
Last edited by Delta77L; Feb 13, 2016 at 11:00 pm
Feb 13, 2016, 11:28 pm
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: GM on VX, UA, AA, HA, AS, SY; Budget Fastbreak
Posts: 27,631
OK, I'm now officially spoiled... New York to LA on a Gulfstream-IV
Fun TR - I definitely was thrown off about the shared plane because of your past TRs on jet smarter. But I've better comprehended thanks to the additional comments & info!
Did the women share their desserts with everyone? Im not expecting it but those desserts also looked good.
If you hadn't done this, then would you have stayed in PIT for 2/11?
How did you get to LGA from PIT? Did you have a revenue or award ticket? F or Y?
How did you get from Los Angeles back to either DEN or wherever you had planned to next go - did you have to return to PIT?
I'm also confused by the annual fee and $0 flight - are $0 flights now unlimited? I'm still accustomed to the cash offers on the app.
I actually can imagine this Jetsmarter / private plane share system being wildly successful and more competitive ala Uber-Lyft. With scale, the annual costs could actually fall. Sure none of us know, but imagine if enough people & planes joined and suddenly it was $6000/year with unlimited free flights, and people got enough flights to keep renewing their membership. I've definitely started to use uber/taxi apps more than the days of only trying to hail a cab.
Did the women share their desserts with everyone? Im not expecting it but those desserts also looked good.
If you hadn't done this, then would you have stayed in PIT for 2/11?
How did you get to LGA from PIT? Did you have a revenue or award ticket? F or Y?
How did you get from Los Angeles back to either DEN or wherever you had planned to next go - did you have to return to PIT?
I'm also confused by the annual fee and $0 flight - are $0 flights now unlimited? I'm still accustomed to the cash offers on the app.
I actually can imagine this Jetsmarter / private plane share system being wildly successful and more competitive ala Uber-Lyft. With scale, the annual costs could actually fall. Sure none of us know, but imagine if enough people & planes joined and suddenly it was $6000/year with unlimited free flights, and people got enough flights to keep renewing their membership. I've definitely started to use uber/taxi apps more than the days of only trying to hail a cab.
Feb 14, 2016, 1:01 am
#29
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: QFF, Krisflyer
Posts: 472
Disappointing that JetSmarter has gone to a shared plane system as it takes the "Private" out of "Private Jet" and having it all to yourself like in your previous TR's.
It also seems in this instance there were a few hoops to jump through to get from point A to B.
Still thanks for the TR and your experience with this flight.
It also seems in this instance there were a few hoops to jump through to get from point A to B.
Still thanks for the TR and your experience with this flight.