Okay, I'm going to take the other side of this.

If someone has special needs, it is their responsibility, and only their responsibility, to see that those needs are met. It is never the responsibility or obligation of strangers to do so.

With respect to Katja, it is her obligation to make arrangements with the airline to see that her disability can be accommodated. However, if the airline messes up by mis-assigning her seat and an FA asks me to change mine, my determination is made based on the fact that (1) Katja's disability is not of her choosing, and (2) I have respect for disabled people who are simply trying to go about their business in a world that is not particularly friendly to their disability. Accordingly, I would accommodate her by switching seats, but not because it was the airline, rather than the pax, who was responsible for the seating situation. I would not, however, be amenable to accommodating a seat switch with someone whose special need is the result of a lifestyle choice, whether it is a couple who wants to sit next to each other or a family that "needs" to sit together. In such instances, it matters little to me whether it is the airline that screwed up or the pax. I might switch if asked nicely and to an equal or better seat. I would not switch to a lesser seat, regardless of who was at "fault."

While I respect this viewpoint, let me offer another perspective. I should not have to jump through multiple hoops that other frequent flyers do not have to jump through in order to get the same service. Since the airline chooses not to link its knowledge of my disability (in my profile and my PNR) to the seats it makes available to me online, I do have to take extra steps that a non-disabled passenger does not have to take.

The current crop of lawsuits against online service providers like hotels.com illustrates this principle. I cannot book an accessible hotel room online through hotels.com, I have to make a phone call. I can't reserve an accessible seat at the Buell Theatre in Denver, I have to make a phone call. I (sometimes) can't choose an airline seat online that I can physically access. It is the airline's responsibility to set up its systems so that I can get the same service a non-disabled person can get online.

I agree the airline may not bounce that responsibility to random strangers.

Well, that's my point. You have special needs, so you have to take special steps. As I indicated, I'm not going to make an issue over switching seats for a disabled passenger -- I always do that for the reasons I mentioned in my other post.

My focus is on other "special need" pax, e.g. couples that want to sit next to each other, parents that want to sit with their children, people who want a window seat, etc. It doesn't matter to me whether people in these circumstances failed to plan ahead, took whatever was available assuming others would switch, or did everything right but the airline messed up the seating anyway. It's not anyone else's problem but the person with the special need.

For example, I need to have a window seat when I fly. Despite being a 20+ year frequent flier, I'm slightly flying-phobic, and having a window seat is one of the things that makes the experience bearable for me. This is my special need, so it's my responsibility to ensure that I get a window seat. I pick flights (and even airlines) based on the availability of a window seat on a specific flight. In irregular op situations, I've waited for later flights with window availability, rather than fly in an aisle seat on what the airline booked me. I would never book an aisle because that was all that was available on a specific flight and assume I could talk someone into switching with me. I would never board a flight in which the airline assigned me an aisle seat by mistake.

As a disabled person, the airlines, Buell Theatre, hotels and businesses have a legal obligation to make reasonable accommodations for you. You should get better service than a non-disabled person as a matter of law.

That's my only point.

Sounds like we're basically in violent agreemment.

Except for this - I should get the same, not better, service. Down with the entitlement mentality!

Actually, I don't think this is really "the other side", just a different angle. I agree that it's everyone's responsibility to do their own planning to try to get what they need, and when things don't work out, it's not everyone else's responsibility to try to fix the situation. I believe in those cases that it is the GA's and/or FA's responsibility to figure out what (if anything) should be done.

The GA's and FA's are in a much better position than an individual pax to know how the situation came about, they have more options available to them to address an issue, they have more experience dealing with these things, and they can handle them without it becoming a personal confrontation between two passengers. The GA's and FA's can tell pax that they're just out of luck if the problem is due to the pax's own poor planning. On the flip side, if it's due to a mistake on the airline's part, they can figure out the best way to deal with it. They can also take into account whether they're dealing with an actual need (e.g. an accessible seat) or just a want (e.g. being seated together).

And if the airline does make a mistake and, for example, fails to provide an accessible seat for someone who needs it, I would expect them to reseat someone else in order to provide the accessible seat. It sucks to be that person who loses their chosen seat, but a) as we all know, seat assignments aren't guaranteed; and b) if the airline has to choose between keeping someone off the flight and putting someone in a less desirable seat, I'm pretty sure I know which one they'll choose. Obviously, they should try to minimize the inconvenience for the reseated pax, and as I mentioned above, they're in a much better position to do that than an individual pax, as they can offer an upgrade or at least try to provide a reasonably comparable seat.

This is an interesting swing the conversation has taken.

I have to agree with Katja that she is put into a very uncomfortable situation. Having discussed needing a wheelchair, when the airline plops her into a seat that is not her assigned one and the FA then promptly leaves, Katja is in a horrible circumstance: Having to rationalize to a person who's already probably angry as to why she's in their seat.

To make matters more complicated, people who rely on wheelchairs can't exactly rise from the disputed seat if the original seatholder is unwilling to abide by the switch, which could certainly further exasperate the original seatholder.

To make matters even more uncomfortable, the disabled passenger is placed in a situation where s/he is somehow driven to need to discuss aloud details about their physical situation that they wouldn't have had to do if the FA had simply remained there until the original seatholder arrived and discreetly explained that "some seats are being reassigned to meet the needs of a disabled passenger. Here's your new seat. Thank you very much." End of conversation. Throwing the disabled passenger to the wind by putting them in an unassigned seat and leaving is unconscionable.

As for being unable to reserve appropriate seats in advance, that's interesting. I would imagine the airlines certainly COULD (and obviously SHOULD) be able to open seat sections for advance reservation based on a profile characteristic (e.g., a disability). If they can do it by elite profile status, they could assign another profile category to also open certain seats to pre-selection. In fact, I wouldn't have imagined it to be any other way; I've learned something!

Slightly off the disability topic, but I would think they could/should set up other similar features where --for example only!-- the reservations system so that if you are in process of buying an infant ticket, the bulkhead (hence bassinet) positions automatically become reservable. How about a smart system that works for its passengers? (ALL of them?) It really isn't too much to imagine (or too much to to expect). The current every man for himself/herself set-up is untenable. Sometimes it's no wonder that air rage has gotten as bad as it has!

When traveling alone for work, I also am not always the most sympathetic toward families, either. I have myself turned down a dad who wanted my bulkhead on a 12-hr TA flight so he could next to his wife & infant. (After all, the people who NEEDED it [i.e., mom & baby] had their needs met; the rest was simply about convenience. AND, since I reserved that seat, my convenience wins.) So I am not a defender of seat poachers in any way -- I just felt like I had to comment on the difference that small changes to the reservation and customer service systems would make to certain types of customers and the potential disgruntledness that could be prevented!

The hotels.com one doesn't make sense, either. If the hotels' own web sites can differentiate and allow reservations of accessible rooms, why not hotels.com?

Finally -- and this is way off topic now -- but I thought the inability to reserve handicapped-access theater and event tickets online was actually a favor to the disabled people who need the seats, so it's interesting to hear the other viewpoint. If they were able to be purchased online, what's to prevent an able-bodied person like myself from buying all of them up for an otherwise sold-out event or in a case where the accessible seats are the best seats left for sale (e.g. ground level accessible vs. balcony non-accessible)?

Wow, that was LONG of me. Thanks for reading.

If you tell them, they'll know ...
People might make judgement based on the way things look. If you explain, I think some people (at least me) will understand the situation and not take it against you.

Yep, although if the airline messes up, the consequences may be felt by a random stranger. As I mentioned in my above post, I feel that it's the airline's responsibility to take care of any such disserviced pax and acknowledge that their mistake did cause a problem for someone, even if they were able to accommodate the pax who was originally affected.

Although you can never really "ensure" it since seat assignments aren't guaranteed. As an elite member, you're much more likely to keep you chosen seat than a GM, but I've been bumped out of my chosen seat into E- even as a 2P.

Personally, I think airlines should offer guaranteed seat assignments, save for equipment changes. The compensation for losing your guaranteed seat wouldn't necessarily be much, but at least a) there would be some acknowledgment that you're being inconvenienced; and b) it would recognize that seat assignments are very important to some people (such as PTravel) and that the airline should try to minimize the disruption if they do have to reseat you. No more E+ window --> E- middle swaps without so much as an apology.

I've had that happen during irreg. ops. When there was no window seat available, I told the airline to put me on the first available flight that had one. In some instances, I wound up waiting many, many hours for such a flight, but it would never occur to me to demand that the airline move someone else to accommodate me.

I agree. When I buy a theater ticket, it's for a specific seat. House management would never switch my seat without my consent when I show up to see a performance.

If nothing else, the airline could mark on its seat selection web page that certain seats are for persons with disabilities and state that persons without disabilities may be required to move to a different seat if a person with a disability requiring the special seat is on the plane.

All very good - the first couple of paragraphs are exactly what has happened to me on more than one occasion. Thank you for giving this as much thought as you did.

Your last point is also good, but restricting the sale of wheelchair accessible theatre (or whatever) seats to phone sales doesn't prevent an able-bodied person from calling up and buying them, either. Theatres (movie & live) are different from planes in that the accessible seats are frequently very undesirable - if you look at the orchestra seating map for the Buell (since I started with it) you'll see the accessible seats pretty much have abysmal sightlines compared to every other seat in the orchestra section (people who use wheelchairs don't want high-priced seats?).

An airline that shall remain nameless tried this. Pax who had reserved PNRs with infants were able to request the bulkhead bassinet seats. Some enterprising TAs charged their clients $10-15 extra to add an infant when booking the PNR, snag these seats and then cancel the infant from the PNR. The experiment was terminated a few months later.

You can try to help someone, but as long as a loophole exists, even in good faith, there will be someone who tries to abuse it.

During my IAD-OAK flight a couple of weeks ago, I was moved out of my chosen 8C for exactly this reason - a wheelchair passenger needed to be accomodated and the armrest on 8C could be raised, hence my seat was needed. After paging me to the podium, the GA explained all of this, put me in an exit row (window, but it was the one without a seat in front), and even gave me a $50 voucher "for the inconvenience." Now that's a good way to handle it - win-win for everyone (except maybe UA, since they're out $50).

Too bad that many (most?) GAs don't handle it this well.

Normally if you ask and the seat available for me isn't too bad, I'll move without a fuss.

Now, I'm not so sure. The last time I did this (ATL-SMF) I gave up my seat for a family and was stuck sitting next to this mother and young child. The kid was maybe 5 years old.

The entire flight the kid was a complete spazz. he was jummping around everywhere, tearing pages out of the magazine, climbing under the seat, etc. I was jabbed or bumped by him at least every 30 seconds - 1 minute for the rest of the flight. He was "playing" so hard that his mom took his shirt off (I'm not kidding) and he spent the rest of the flight shirtless. The mom did nothing to try and control his behavior.

Once we landed, the guy who I switched seats with apologized. (He saw everything)