Of course, it could have worked out the other way just as well. Your seat switch might have moved you away from a 5-year-old nuisance.

Personally, I'd just chalk it up to bad luck rather than it being a bad idea to switch seats.

Flew ORD LAX on AA on 8/8. A couple and their (grand?)child were scattered throughout economy as they had been re-booked due to a delayed connection. FA asked the first person who said no, approached the second who happily moved (13B - bulkhead C a few rows up both aisles so guess he was OK). Mother and son now in front of me and father in 7 or 8 C. Kept coming back to talk to the son who was a little nervous so I offered to switch from 14B to his seat. I didn't mind moving and it would have meant more quiet for me since the kid was chatty. Father gratefully accepted *and* offered me $50. I didn't take it but I thought that was a nice gesture.

WOW - that was a generous offer for a seat switch

Not that I would take it either, but its nice to hear that some people actually appreciate you giving up your specially selected seat ^, instead of having the sense of entitlement attitude that was mentioned further up thread.

It also comes down to abuse.....I'm tall -- so my knees hit the seatback in front of me when in Y-. Does that mean that I have "special needs" and should get first dib on the bulkhead, and be able to bump others out of there? I think it doesn't. Determining when a "special need" requires something "special" is not easy to do in a mechanic way, and I understand that having a human arbiter in the process is useful. As is additional obstacles useful in order to avoid having me declairng "Special need, must have Y+/bulkhead" without really needing it.

I'd switch -- also to a lesser seat -- if confronted with a pax with special needs. However I'd also not expect a pax to want to divulge his/her special need to me, a random stranger, and go "Begging for mercy". And so I think that having the airline go in between (the FA/GA, for example) would be only decent.

Good post!

This is exactly an example of the kind of "special need" -- that I respect -- but that are hard to quantify/explain in a loaded airplane to a PAX who's in the seat you desire. Honestly, if someone came asking me to switch for *that* reason I'd (until I read your post) think that it was simply a trick.

I do not belittle your need for a window seat, and I commend you for the steps you take to not bring upon a switcher-situation ^

I also agree that the airline personnel should make the arrangements concerning seat-switching for a disabled passenger. It isn't fair to expect them to have to explain personal details to a complete (angry) stranger standing in the aisle.

On one flight we had to book at the last minute a few years ago, I hadn't discovered FT and had no idea there were so many seat-poachers in the airline world. On a flight with only coach seats left for sale, I was in the aisle seat, and the poor businessman next to me in the middle got "that look" in his eye when I started a conversation. He was in front of a small child, and when he realized I was not only not a VBIT but was offering him the aisle for his middle, he must have thought I was crazy. But I could recline in good conscience in front of a small child's seat, and I have a bad back.

He got the aisle, I reclined after playing "peek-a-boo" for a while until the child fell asleep after take-off (really, a very well-behaved and sweet child) and a pleasant flight was had by all.

Interesting, but my experience has been different. There have been a handful of times when I couldn't get 4 seats together for my family, and each time a quick call to the airline (NW) resolved the issue. I called several weeks prior to the flight, so perhaps it's more of a problem when people wait until the last minute. Even more frequently, I'm able to select the seats myself online -- again, the trick is doing this far enough in advance so that you have a choice. While I understand airlines sometimes move people at the last minute, my guess is that many of the people who end up scattered around the plane simply didn't take the time to plan properly.

As to the original question, I am with the majority here -- if another pax asks me politely before taking my seat, their chances would be much better than if they just went ahead and took it. The main limitation is that I am not going to give up a good seat for something significantly worse. Sure, I'd probably give up 5C for 7C if you ask nicely. Just don't bother asking me to give up 5C for 26B.

On the nose! I seem to see reported here three types of circumstances in which families wind up seated apart:

1. Inexperienced fliers failed to get seat assignments at booking. I have very limited sympathy for such people -- if you know you have special needs, ask questions, don't just assume (actually good advice to follow for any travel issue).

2. Families are booked together but irregular ops (cancellations, change of equipment, misconnects, etc.) result in being split up. I do have some sympathy for this, though, particularly for experienced fliers, booking tight connections invites these kinds of problems. If someone (FA, GA or parent) explains the situation to me, I'll try to accommodate them IF the seat I'm being moved to isn't a significant downgrade AND I can keep my window (which is my personal "special need").

3. Families who book flights knowing there are no seats together and assume that the FA or GA will move people around for them (or that they'll simply usurp someone's seat and play the "kid card.") I have absolutely no sympathy at all -- I will move only if required to by the captain, at which point I will demand that I be treated as an IDB. As I said in another post, "The lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." However, I will move if it is a TRUE emergency, i.e. someone is sick or dying, someone needs medical attention, parent being deployed to Iraq, etc. As above, it will need to be explained to me (again, by either FA, GA or parent). If it's a true emergency, I'll sit wherever there's room, regardless of whether its a downgrade. Short of a true emergency, though, don't even ask under these circumstances -- if you're lucky, I'll ignore you. If I'm in the mood, however, I'll treat you to a lecture about entitlement, planning and proper parenting. Pull the, "Okay, if you won't switch, I'll just leave junior here next to you -- here are extra diapers" trick and I'll ask the FA to call Child Protective Services and/or the police.

So thank you, MarqFlyer -- your consideration is noted and appreciated! ^^^

Note: not a dig at anyone posting in this thread. Just a lot of pent up frustration.

PTravel,

I don't know if you have ever booked a trip without having elite status, but if so, you are often able to see row after row of empty seats in the elite section while the non-status section is completely full. In fact, sometimes you won't even be given a seat number, but will be told that it will be assigned at the airport.

The airlines do nothing to warn these families that they need to get their seat assignments up front. They are simply not given seat numbers and told that seats will be assigned at the airport. OR, they are given seats all over the place and told by the airline agent that the gate agent will take care of seating the family together.

I guess I would make two points. First, in many instances these families are playing as much by the rules as the person who has had the firm seat assignment for 331 days. They have done exactly what the airline told them to do. Second, most of these families don't travel much, don't read FT and are unaware of how much it irritates people to ask them to move. So they book whatever seats they can assuming they will be able to switch and sit together.

With all that said, if a family holding four middle-seat tickets comes on board looking for people to switch seats, they aren't going to get very far with me in my aisle seat. But if I can make an equal swap and make their trip better, I'm more than happy to help.

I've booked travel on airlines for which I don't have status. I don't fly airlines that won't give me a seat assignment. If I can't get my preferred seat (a window) on the specific flight I'm booking, I'll book a different flight or, if necessary, a different airline.

Poor planning on the part of the family. When I do an activity with which I'm unfamiliar, I research it enough to know whether it will meet my needs. Anyone who thinks this through would realize that, if they don't start with seats assigned together, it's very likely that some stranger would have to be imposed upon to accomplish it.

Yes, so? Though irregular ops and equipment changes aren't exactly rare, they're also not the norm (hence the name, "irregular"). I get the seat that I booked 99.9% of the time, and anyone who books sufficiently ahead of time will as well. Just because the airline may tell a family, "we'll assign seats at the airport" doesn't mean that the family is "playing by the rules." They may be playing by the airline's rules, but they're not playing by the rules of courtesy or common sense.

And if they think it through, they will realize that the only way they will be able to switch is by asking strangers to move. This is entitlement-demanding: "Of course people will switch. I'm traveling with children. Having them sit next to me is more important than anything else to anyone else." I repeat: if you have a special need, it is your obligation to ensure that it's met, and not the responsibility of anyone else. If you're traveling with children it is particularly important. Name one other activity where a family could get away this. Does this family tell people in restaurants, "You sit at that nasty table near the bathroom, because we need the larger one for our family." Do they move people around at movie theaters? How about plays and concerts that have reserved seats, just like an airplane? Sorry, anyone who assumes that the airline will seat them together despite their not have seat reservations that so provide is either an entitlement demander, negligent or stupid, none of which merit accommodation.

I'll make an equal swap under most circumstances. I might for a family if I'm not already settled in. If the kid[s] is/are a nuisance, I wouldn't on principle.

However, the simple fact is, for me, there are very few equal swaps. On UA aircraft, there are a very limited number of E+ seats that (1) are window seats that have windows (and are not just in the window position with no window to look out of), (2) recline, (3) aren't the last row of E+, and (4) aren't a bulkhead seat. The odds of some infrequent-flying family have an equal seat for me to switch to are about nil.

This is a good point. I hadn't thought of it this way before and I'm not sure I completely agree, but it's a useful perspective in any case.

I definitely agree that people should, in general, consider the consequences of their actions and decisions (including the decision not to plan) on others.

However, I'm not so certain that your average, infrequent traveler should be expected to understand how airline seating works and to know what's actually possible and/or customary. I don't think most infrequent travelers understand how much of a difference there is between many seats on the plane, and thus they don't appreciate how much of an imposition it may be for people to change seats. Since you don't pay anything extra for particular seats within a given section, I can certainly see how a novice traveler would assume that they're all essentially equal.

That said, if you care that much about being seated together, you should at least call the airline to see what they can do for you, rather than putting the burden on others on the plane to help you out. However, IMO it's not reasonable to expect people not to travel unless they can be guaranteed the seats they want. After all, the airlines don't guarantee the seats in the first place, so it would seem a bit foolish to consider this as a major factor in your travel planning, particularly for a GM.

The infrequent flier doesn't have to know what's customary. However, if sitting together is important, then they should find out if it's possible.

They don't need to understand the difference or appreciate the extent of the imposition. However naive they may be about flying, they certainly know that there are seats on the plane. They also know they need to sit together. If I'd never flown before and was booking my first flight, I'd tell the phone agent, "I'm traveling with my children. Will we be able to sit together?" If the rep said something like, "We don't have seats together now, but the agent will sort it out at the airport," I would understand that it would involve asking strangers to switch seats. I don't have to appreciate the extent of the imposition -- I only have to know that I have now made my problem the problem of strangers. If the rep said, "Seats are assigned at the airport," my question would be, "How do I guarantee that I'll be sitting with my children?" If the answer was, "You can't on this flight because it is fully booked," I'd know to book another flight. If the answer was, "Get there early," I'd ask, "How early to guarantee seats together?" If the agent said, "We can't guarantee that on this flight, but if you get there 2 hours ahead of time you'll have a pretty good chance of getting seats together because we always hold seats for airport checkin," I'd say, "What's the earliest I could checkin to ensure getting seats together?" The agent would say, "24 hours before if you do it on-line," and that's what I would do.

Either sitting together is important or it is not. If it is, I'd ensure that it was going to happen. This doesn't require familiarity with flying. It just requires a little common sense and some planning.

Why? The concept of "reserved seats" is certainly not unique to flying. Do you ask people to switch seats at the ball game? The opera? A play? A concert?

^

Why? What's not reasonable is to assume you can impose on a stranger as a matter of right. As I've mentioned in a couple of other posts, I must have a window seat when I fly. If one isn't available on the flight that I want, I book another flight. If another flight isn't available, I book another airline. It's my problem, and my problem only. I have no right to impose on some stranger to accommodate my special need.

Then I guess it's not that important that families sit together. Getting a window seat is a major factor in my travel planning. If it's not for a family, then they'll just have to cope (though if someone sticks a very young child next to me and expects me to babysit, as I indicated previously, I'll ask the FA to call Child Protective Services or the police).

Ok PTravel - can I ask then what you do when you get the unexpected op-up or upgrade at the last minute, but the only seats avail to you and your family (or travelling companion) are scattered all over the C cabin????

Do you forgo the upgrade because you didnt get your window seat and your family (who are young) are seated everywhere???? Or do you kindly ask if someone could help you out and swap?

Please tell

I have been in this exact scenario and I planned my trip 6 mths ahead, had my seats and everything organised! Viola, get to checkin, get given an op-up for a 14 HOUR flt. My child is in a completely different row to me by a window (lucky girl) - some rows are staggered in C class! She is anxious about flying! Thats her special need, so we need to sit together to keep her calm. We were told we could get the FA to sort out our seats once we boarded. Ok fair enough, I was none the wiser and hoping we wouldnt have any issues. Now I am on FT I realise what a BIG DEAL this is for some people!

We get on board, and sure enough the person seated next to my daughter, is split up from their partner. Although we didnt realise this, we hung around my seat which was 25F, without realising in fact that my daughter had the better seat (25H). The couple were only too pleased to swap my child out of her window, next to me in the middle seat of row 25, so they could sit together. In this case it worked, no one was inconvenienced and if anything, we got the less attractive seats out of the deal (ie middle row of C class). I have posted about this on another thread.

But my point is - we had planned ahead, done our research etc etc for Y cabin, not for the unexpected (and very welcome) bump up to C CABIN! So sometimes people are in a situation they didnt plan for and may need to ask a "KIND" stranger if they would mind swapping so they can sit together.

Sure its annoying when you have planned your perfect seat and some annoying stranger comes up and asks kindly to swap because of their situation, I totally understand that. It has happened to me on SQ where I was told by an FA basically, to move to the back row of the plane so a family/friends could sit together. We got the bum deal! But I do feel that each situation may be different, as the one I have just described and sometimes families CANT help it if they end up all over the cabin.

If no one could swap, and we were split up and my child ended up next to you, would you be calling Child Services?? Luckily not everyone has the same attitude as you . BTW, in our country, Child Services and the Police would laugh at you, and tell you to call when you had a real child protection issue! Just my humble opinion

My wife and I have been married for more than 12 years. We can manage a few hours seated apart just fine.

I forgo the upgrade.

I just did. When my wife and I get split up, I will ask, politely, if someone would switch -- I always offer to take the less desirable seat and I immediately and graciously accept "no" as an answer. I would never sit in someone else's seat, never argue, and always phrase the request as a request, i.e. "Would you possibly be willing . . . ?" Frankly, though, it's not that big a deal -- we'll just sit apart.

Then you shouldn't have accepted the op-up. Your special need is that you sit with her. You need to make that happen without imposing on other people.

If you got an op up (and you're here on FT) then you should know that seat location is a very big deal. Even if you didn't know, how could you assume that strangers wouldn't have to move to accommodate you.

As you note, this time it worked out. What would you have done if the couple didn't want to switch?

You could have declined the op up. Which is more important -- sitting next to your daughter or sitting in C?

I really want to know -- what would have happened if you couldn't find someone willing to switch? Would you have started explaining how your daughter can't remain calm if you don't sit next to her? Would you have said something like, "So, if you want to deal with her when she gets upset, feel free . . ."?

I would have refused. I would have invited the FA to tell the pilot, and I would not move unless he/she told me to. I would then tell the pilot, if he/she insisted I move, that I insist on being treated as an IDB.

But you DID prevent being seated all over the cabin. The problem was, you wanted to accept the op up.

Sorry. Not my problem.


How old is your child? If she's too young to tend to herself, yes I would. I wouldn't start there, of course -- I would tell you and the FA exactly what I planned to do first. It's not my goal to make trouble for you. I will not switch, however, to a lesser seat to accommodate you in a circumstance like this.

Why do you think it's appropriate to impose on someone else, forcing them to switch to a seat that, for them, is undesirable, so that you could accept an op up? That is the very meaning of entitlement demanding.

Luckily for you. However, more and more people are having less and less patience with this kind of thing.

I'm sure things are different in Oz. In the U.S. you'd be in for a most unpleasant time.

IMHO, its not that different. I am a mandatory reporter of Child abuse and neglect. I am required to have a good working knowledge of what constitutes child abuse and neglect. BTW, do you have children that you take on flights with you, any experience of flying with children??

Hope that clears up some of your misinformation .

Good luck getting your window seat on every flight you take