My apologies -- if lack of safety was not your implication -- I truly jumped the gun in assuming it was. When ValuJet and Tower are mentioned, and you try to lump ATA into that group, safety was the only common thread I could find, as VJ's service was reported to be good before the unfortunate crash. You can offer any opinion you please, as long as you make it clear that you are offering an opinion and not attempting to represent a fact.

In particular, what do you find to be the problem with ATA's service.

I have no intention to delete my post -- no need to preserve anything for posterity's sake. ATA does have a poor on-time record vis-a-vis direct comparison to other reporting airlines. However, the only truly valid comparison is between similar airlines. ATA is a major airline (not a national carrier) and operates into many congested airports and in areas of the country highly subject to weather delays. In other words, if you were to look at the rate of controllable delays and compare that number to a similar airline (can't think of many off the top of my head) you'd get a much more realistic picture. The DOT numbers are truly worthless in terms of direct comparison between disparate airlines. ATA certainly doesn't operate a poky airline of its own choosing or due, in a significant way, to factors under its immediate control. I understand efforts are underway to improve the factors under our control that lead to an on-time departure.

In what other ways does ATA "suck"?

Back to the original poster's issue; I doubt it was a W&B concern. As much as I'd like to pass it off as such, it seems to simply be a case of an unfortunate misunderstand between a customer and an F/A. Moving seats, not fastening your seatbelt and arguing with a crewmember just don't fly these days. However, the situation could have been resolved amicably, IMHO.

Let's continue this constructive discussion with ideas for improvement.

joe

Okee dokee. I'll give y'all all the information:

For Q1 2003, ATA had a worse on-time performance than: Airtran, Alaska Airlines, America West, American, American Eagle, Continental, Delta, Expressjet, Jetblue, Northwest, Skywest, Southwest, United and US Airways (14 airlines).

For Q1 2003, it had better on-time performance than Atlantic Coast and Atlantic Southeast (2 airlines).

For April 2003, ATA had a worse on-time performance than: Airtran, Alaska Airlines, America West, American, Continental, Delta, Expressjet, Jetblue, Northwest, Skywest, Southwest and United (12 airlines).

For April 2003, it had better on-time performance than American Eagle, Atlantic Coast, Atlantic Southeast and US Airways (4 airlines).

For May 2003, ATA had a worse on-time performance than: America West, Alaska Airlines, American, American Eagle, Continental, Delta, Expressjet, Jetblue, Northwest, Skywest, Southwest and United (12 airlines).

For May 2003, it had better on-time performance than Airtran, Atlantic Coast, Atlantic Southeast and US Airways (4 airlines).

It would require an awesome amount of gullibility to accept the argument that ATA's poor on-time performance is primarily the fault of congested airports and weather delays.

What do you propose is at fault? The fleet is brand new so maintenance delays and cancellations are minimal. The airline routinely has days where on-time arrivals within the allotted 15 minutes are at or above 90%, thus it isn't as if the airline is incapable of running on-time. FWIW, there is an internal effort to minimize the few controllable delays we do encounter and to decrease boarding time and turn time. It is all too easy to use the DOT statistics in fallacious ways and I'm not sure why you're using them to crucify an airline.

joe

Good lord. First you call criticism of ATA "libelous," now, posting of information from the DOT website is part of an effort to "crucify" an airline.

You asked why ATA's on-time numbers are so bad - I have no idea. Maybe your cleaning crews are understaffed, and you can't turn quickly enough. Maybe your mechanicals take longer than other airlines. Maybe you don't have the "juice" to cut the line for aircraft departure, like some of the big boys. I have no idea.

When discussing our impressions of an airline, it's critical to not just cheerlead, but rather be honest. Joe, if you really do work for ATA, you can be a very valuable contributor here. However, if you're determined to completely dismiss ATA's flaws while simply repeating its marketing, nobody's gonna listen to you.

Point taken. I'll tone it down a bit.

ATA certainly does have its flaws. However, with a brand spanking new fleet, I think we do a great job operating the airline given the cities we serve and conditions we deal with. Our on-time performance, IMHO, is a selling point -- not a negative. On that note, I really wish the DOT would record controllable delays and not just total OT+15 arrivals. That would reduce the bias toward large airlines inherent in a total percentage measurement.

Regardless, customer perception is reality, hence the effort to try as hard as humanly possible to be in the middle of the pack among the reporting carriers. Purdue grad students are currently studying the operation and several gates in MDW are testing some of their suggestions to see how well they work in our "real-world" environment.

Creating a new airline. One step at a time.

joe

[This message has been edited by jjbiv (edited 07-30-2003).]

This was my conclusion after flying with them 14 times in a single month last year.

There was a severe lack of staff at every customer interaction point. It took forever and an age to check in and the staff (consequently or not) were extremely rude.

No matter how cheap, never again. But, as someone else noted, they keep the prices down and increase competition.

Yes, actually, there are 3 sides to every story. Mine, theirs, and what actually happened. Mine is much closer to the truth than what Mr. Fawcett said. Again, had I gotten up in the aisle, and refused to sit down, I can guarantee you I would have been thrown in jail. Perhaps they were justified in throwing me off the flight, but off the airline? I wich I would have had a video camera.

Jeff Noland

Yes, I have learned my lesson. I will probably look more suspicious due to my lack of conversation.

But the airlines will also learn a lesson. When you treat your customers like criminals first and customers last, it will cost you business. Just did a 4200 mile ROAD trip in 6 days. I doubt I could have covered it in an airplane with all the BS they now put you through!

Funny thing was, I wasn't in my original seat to begin with, since I was now in the aisle and was originally in the window.

The plane was some form of 737, and weight distribution was not an issue. FA attitude was the problem.

Jeff Noland

Joe,

I appreciate your apology off forum. It was the only one which I received from anyone at ATA. Mr. Fawcett never replied in writing nor e-mail after our telephone conversation.

Yes, in my opinion, the situation could have, and should have been resolved amicably. Since it was not, in my opinion, it is just another reason why ATA does indeed suck. In fact, someone has a website "atasucks.com".

So I really don't know what was up with the Flight Attendant that morning.

Flying is no longer "fun" or "enjoyable" this day and age. And it certainly is not that I am afraid that the plane I'm on will be hijacked, as I have no fear of flying for that reason. I flew from Frankfurt to ORD on September 15, 2001, 4 days after 9/11. It is just that security, and rude employees ruin what used to be a wonderful experience.

Jeff Noland

Jeff, you're more than welcome for the apology, even though I can in no way speak for ATA.

ATASucks.com is interesting. The gent who registered the domain is from Naperville, IL, and he did so in March of 2000. It would be interesting to see what his beef with us is.

If you'd like to contact Mr. Fawcett, his email address is [email protected] or phone (317) 247-4803.

One thing I've been struck by, and something everyone on this board should remember, is that the airline business is one of the most integrative out there. So many things can go wrong and everything always seems to be "the airline's" fault. It's really tough to have a perfect day. However, that shouldn't keep y'all from complementing those of us who try to keep things sane. Your feedback really does mean a lot.

Again, I'm sorry for your unfortunate run-in with ATA. I hope traveling becomes enjoyable again -- sooner than later.

joe