TSA Bashing
#1
Original Poster




Join Date: Apr 2002
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TSA Bashing
I've just completed my most extensive North American itinerary since 9/11 (I'd only taken one trip in and out of JFK until now.)
I've watched a lot of the comments on the boards about the new security arrangements (and the TSA in particular), and have to say that having taken 5 flights leaving 3 different US airports in the last 6 days the TSA personnel have been without exception competent, efficient and polite (on at least one occasion I'd go so far as to use the word charming).
Obviously I'm not saying that there haven't been teething problems, and obviously I haven't experienced every employee in the system. But I was impressed. I just wish they'd get a shoehorn.
I've watched a lot of the comments on the boards about the new security arrangements (and the TSA in particular), and have to say that having taken 5 flights leaving 3 different US airports in the last 6 days the TSA personnel have been without exception competent, efficient and polite (on at least one occasion I'd go so far as to use the word charming).
Obviously I'm not saying that there haven't been teething problems, and obviously I haven't experienced every employee in the system. But I was impressed. I just wish they'd get a shoehorn.
#2
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So let me pose you this question:
did going through security checks and whatnot the TSA does make you feel resentful? Do you feel your rights have been violated? Try to imagine having refused to be searched - what do you think they're response would have been?
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"I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends." - Dave Barry
did going through security checks and whatnot the TSA does make you feel resentful? Do you feel your rights have been violated? Try to imagine having refused to be searched - what do you think they're response would have been?
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"I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends." - Dave Barry
#3
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I think both have valid points.
The new TSA employees are more friendly and passenger aware, but they are new to the job and still must learn efficiency.
Example, last Friday I flew out of SNA - the lines were tremendous, even with the high number of TSA employees present.
Just flew again this morning at 6:30am, again the lines were atrocious. The passengers were being told that the security line was 45 minutes!!!
When I arrived at the gate, there were 12 TSA ppl!!! Normally, there would have been 5 max. Please tell me how this is efficient.
Finally, it is pretty dang aggravating to be subject to search. I'm glad I'm not a woman, because I saw so many women last week and this morning having to take off their shoes, etc... what a pain!!
I've said this before and I'll say it again - there has to be a SMARTER way, not a harder way to do this...
This is America - we've got plenty of smart people, so put some effort into thinking about the system...
The new TSA employees are more friendly and passenger aware, but they are new to the job and still must learn efficiency.
Example, last Friday I flew out of SNA - the lines were tremendous, even with the high number of TSA employees present.
Just flew again this morning at 6:30am, again the lines were atrocious. The passengers were being told that the security line was 45 minutes!!!
When I arrived at the gate, there were 12 TSA ppl!!! Normally, there would have been 5 max. Please tell me how this is efficient.
Finally, it is pretty dang aggravating to be subject to search. I'm glad I'm not a woman, because I saw so many women last week and this morning having to take off their shoes, etc... what a pain!!
I've said this before and I'll say it again - there has to be a SMARTER way, not a harder way to do this...
This is America - we've got plenty of smart people, so put some effort into thinking about the system...
#4
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Actually, I agree that the TSA is doing a great job, though it could be better. I was playing devil's advocate. While I understand the concerns about the 1984 syndrome, and unreasonable search and seizure, whatever, I feel strongly that air transport security must trump other concerns at this unique time in our nation's history, so as far as I'm concerned, I back the TSA on most issues.
#5
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Wingnut:
....and have to say that having taken 5 flights leaving 3 different US airports in the last 6 days the TSA personnel have been without exception competent, efficient and polite (on at least one occasion I'd go so far as to use the word charming)...</font>
....and have to say that having taken 5 flights leaving 3 different US airports in the last 6 days the TSA personnel have been without exception competent, efficient and polite (on at least one occasion I'd go so far as to use the word charming)...</font>
#6
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Sorry, but someone who is politely harassing you... is still harassing you.
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
#7




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Folks, it's not about FEELINGS.
Submitting to a search is always going to produce negative FEELINGS. It doesn't matter if you're 100% in agreement with the reason for the search, it will still produce resentment, annoyance, impatience and any number of other negative FEELINGS.
In general, our FEELINGS serve us well but they can also lead us astray. Every FEEL angry at another driver who made a mistake such as merging into your lane and almost hitting you? Sure. Haven't you done the same thing a time or two yourself? Of course. The FEELING on anger, or even rage, is inappropriate and most of us are able to reason our way through those inappropriate FEELINGS.
A more appropriate question would be what we all THINK about the TSA's performance. A reasonable person will not expect perfection but would be pleased to see the significant improvements that the TSA has made over the old system and will acknowledge the areas where further improvement is needed.
Submitting to a search is always going to produce negative FEELINGS. It doesn't matter if you're 100% in agreement with the reason for the search, it will still produce resentment, annoyance, impatience and any number of other negative FEELINGS.
In general, our FEELINGS serve us well but they can also lead us astray. Every FEEL angry at another driver who made a mistake such as merging into your lane and almost hitting you? Sure. Haven't you done the same thing a time or two yourself? Of course. The FEELING on anger, or even rage, is inappropriate and most of us are able to reason our way through those inappropriate FEELINGS.
A more appropriate question would be what we all THINK about the TSA's performance. A reasonable person will not expect perfection but would be pleased to see the significant improvements that the TSA has made over the old system and will acknowledge the areas where further improvement is needed.
#8
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Join Date: Apr 2002
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anonplz:
So let me pose you this question:
did going through security checks and whatnot the TSA does make you feel resentful?</font>
So let me pose you this question:
did going through security checks and whatnot the TSA does make you feel resentful?</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Do you feel your rights have been violated?</font>
Do you feel your rights have been violated?</font>
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Try to imagine having refused to be searched - what do you think they're response would have been?
</font>
Try to imagine having refused to be searched - what do you think they're response would have been?
</font>
Maybe it's because I'm British and so have been used to people wanting to have a look at what's in my bag for years (admittedly, not taking nail scissors is a new one, and I've lost a couple of pairs through 'auto-packing' but hell, they're not expensive and the fact that you can't take nail-scissors in the cabin has to be one of the most widely publicised facts about the new regulations!)
As to my rights being violated, which right? I don't think I have a right to get on a plane. I think (and please don't rise to this, barrack room lawyers
) that I enter into a contract with an airline whereby I say I'm going to give you x and you're going to take me from A to B. And as part of that contract they get to ask me to go through metal detectors and whatnot. I know it's part of the deal - where's the problem?I don't think it's harrassment. And I don't have "negative feelings".
As to your experience, UALOneKPlus, that's plain old managerial incompetence. Of which we encounter far more in the UK that you do in the US, trust me!
All they need is a supply of shoehorns...
#9
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A smarter TSA would be much more beneficial.
With the current system, every security step has been very much reactionary. We didn't have to take off our shoes until the Richard Reid incident. How smart is such a system?
Allow me to illustrate with a far-fetched scenario: a terrorist woman gets boob implants, except she puts HPE in her boobs rather thank regular silicon. Then she either attempts or is successful at boarding a flight and blowing herself up.
Guess what the typical TSA reaction would be - every woman travelling would be subject to boob inspections. Not very smart.
The TSA should be designed smarter, with layered security. Level One is the regular security screening. Level Two is a deeper level of security, where suspicious or random passengers are interviewed on an ad hoc basis by behavorioally trained specialists for a few minutes. If anything suspicious is discovered, then Level 3 security is activated, where that person is interviewed for a few more minutes by several people, until that person is cleared.
This would have the added benefit of allowing those who travel frequently to get to know the security people, and allow the security people to get to know the passengers better. Of course, privacy is always a huge concern, and consistent and scientific methods must be used so that people are not discriminated.
However, such a system would potentially tell the difference between a passenger who is nervous because he is going to a job interview, versus someone who is up to no good.
This means the TSA would have to pay good money for well trained behavorial specialists, and non-discriminatory training. But this system would make me feel truly safer than this show of reactionary safety measure.
Just my 2 cents worth.
With the current system, every security step has been very much reactionary. We didn't have to take off our shoes until the Richard Reid incident. How smart is such a system?
Allow me to illustrate with a far-fetched scenario: a terrorist woman gets boob implants, except she puts HPE in her boobs rather thank regular silicon. Then she either attempts or is successful at boarding a flight and blowing herself up.
Guess what the typical TSA reaction would be - every woman travelling would be subject to boob inspections. Not very smart.
The TSA should be designed smarter, with layered security. Level One is the regular security screening. Level Two is a deeper level of security, where suspicious or random passengers are interviewed on an ad hoc basis by behavorioally trained specialists for a few minutes. If anything suspicious is discovered, then Level 3 security is activated, where that person is interviewed for a few more minutes by several people, until that person is cleared.
This would have the added benefit of allowing those who travel frequently to get to know the security people, and allow the security people to get to know the passengers better. Of course, privacy is always a huge concern, and consistent and scientific methods must be used so that people are not discriminated.
However, such a system would potentially tell the difference between a passenger who is nervous because he is going to a job interview, versus someone who is up to no good.
This means the TSA would have to pay good money for well trained behavorial specialists, and non-discriminatory training. But this system would make me feel truly safer than this show of reactionary safety measure.
Just my 2 cents worth.
#10
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My only problem with the TSA is INCONSISTENCY. My shoes are an all-out freaking BOMB THREAT at some airports, but other airports could care less what I wear on my feet. Different airports make me do different things with my cellphone. Sometimes I can take a Coke with me through security; sometimes I can't.
All I ask is CONSISTENCY and a published set of rules that I must abide by to NOT be considered a terrorism threat by the airlines. I will abide by those rules if I know what they are, even if that means buying a new pair of shoes or a new belt. I don't like the current approach where they can CHOOSE who to harass, how hard to harass them, and whether to harass them again at the gate. Publish definitive rules, ask us to abide by them, and things will run a lot more smoothly.
I completed about 15 segments in September/October and got screened, rescreened, wand-searched, shoe-searched, gate-searched, and in general harassed on about every segment except the international ones. I KNOW and RESPECT the reasons that the airlines need good security (who doesn't?), but they have to find a SMARTER way to do it.
Until they do, I fly only when I absolutely have to. Message to the airlines, TSA, or whoever else cares out there: Get smarter and more efficient about security, or you will continue to lose business.
All I ask is CONSISTENCY and a published set of rules that I must abide by to NOT be considered a terrorism threat by the airlines. I will abide by those rules if I know what they are, even if that means buying a new pair of shoes or a new belt. I don't like the current approach where they can CHOOSE who to harass, how hard to harass them, and whether to harass them again at the gate. Publish definitive rules, ask us to abide by them, and things will run a lot more smoothly.
I completed about 15 segments in September/October and got screened, rescreened, wand-searched, shoe-searched, gate-searched, and in general harassed on about every segment except the international ones. I KNOW and RESPECT the reasons that the airlines need good security (who doesn't?), but they have to find a SMARTER way to do it.
Until they do, I fly only when I absolutely have to. Message to the airlines, TSA, or whoever else cares out there: Get smarter and more efficient about security, or you will continue to lose business.
#11
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Yet again, the scenario is raised, TSA, stop scaring customers away from air travel.
But one could also make a statement, TSA, keep being nudges because if there's another hijacking/suicide mission (God forbid), the airlines industry will REALLY tank, especially with the economy the way it is.
But one could also make a statement, TSA, keep being nudges because if there's another hijacking/suicide mission (God forbid), the airlines industry will REALLY tank, especially with the economy the way it is.
#12
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UALOneKPlus:
...I'm glad I'm not a woman, because I saw so many women last week and this morning having to take off their shoes, etc... what a pain!!...</font>
...I'm glad I'm not a woman, because I saw so many women last week and this morning having to take off their shoes, etc... what a pain!!...</font>
#13
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by UALOneKPlus:
...Allow me to illustrate with a far-fetched scenario: a terrorist woman gets boob implants, except she puts HPE in her boobs rather thank regular silicon. Then she either attempts or is successful at boarding a flight and blowing herself up.
Guess what the typical TSA reaction would be - every woman travelling would be subject to boob inspections. Not very smart...</font>
...Allow me to illustrate with a far-fetched scenario: a terrorist woman gets boob implants, except she puts HPE in her boobs rather thank regular silicon. Then she either attempts or is successful at boarding a flight and blowing herself up.
Guess what the typical TSA reaction would be - every woman travelling would be subject to boob inspections. Not very smart...</font>

#14
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by onedog:
I am not a woman and I get the honor of taking off my shoes virtually every time I go through security at SJC.
</font>
I am not a woman and I get the honor of taking off my shoes virtually every time I go through security at SJC.
</font>
#15




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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by anonplz:
did going through security checks and whatnot the TSA does make you feel resentful?</font>
did going through security checks and whatnot the TSA does make you feel resentful?</font>

