NoStressHere--What, No Comment??
Jan 30, 2001, 8:38 pm
#1
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Niceville, FL, USA
Posts: 2,793
NoStressHere--What, No Comment??
I notice that you failed to justify just why your company expects to change their consultant's itineraries at their whim and expects the consultants to pay for the change fee out of THEIR pockets.
Maybe you could explain to all here, just how, if THEY are not going to pay it, and the AIRLINE is not going to pay it, WHO should pay it. Or if this is unacceptable to you, perhaps you could attempt to justify my buying full fare tickets so there is no change fee...and how your company is gonna explain/justify this to your clients?
Perhaps you could also be so kind as to explain why you think *I* should pay the change fee on non-refundable tickets here when my company/client changes the itinerary, since you obviously do not have the courage to do so on the original thread.
Since my email address is available to all, would you do me a favor and and privately tell me your company's name so I do not waste time talking to them when they try to recruit me.
And, just for the record, understand that even if we had to burn one ticket out of four, it is still more cost-efficient for the client over full-fare refundable tickets. Please explain how your company justifies this versus paying the change fee.
Oh, yeah, don't bother thanking me me for doing nested tickets..UA Jan. 1, return Dec. 31, and another carrier Work Site-Home the rest of the year. Don't bother to thank me for going thru Las Vegas to California to save $300 (FOR THE CLIENT) on a ticket at a cost of half a day at home, of which I get, usually, Saturday and half of Sunday.
Yeah, I really screw the client. <expletive deleted. Sorry>
Thanx.
[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-30-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-30-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-31-2001).]
Maybe you could explain to all here, just how, if THEY are not going to pay it, and the AIRLINE is not going to pay it, WHO should pay it. Or if this is unacceptable to you, perhaps you could attempt to justify my buying full fare tickets so there is no change fee...and how your company is gonna explain/justify this to your clients?
Perhaps you could also be so kind as to explain why you think *I* should pay the change fee on non-refundable tickets here when my company/client changes the itinerary, since you obviously do not have the courage to do so on the original thread.
Since my email address is available to all, would you do me a favor and and privately tell me your company's name so I do not waste time talking to them when they try to recruit me.
And, just for the record, understand that even if we had to burn one ticket out of four, it is still more cost-efficient for the client over full-fare refundable tickets. Please explain how your company justifies this versus paying the change fee.
Oh, yeah, don't bother thanking me me for doing nested tickets..UA Jan. 1, return Dec. 31, and another carrier Work Site-Home the rest of the year. Don't bother to thank me for going thru Las Vegas to California to save $300 (FOR THE CLIENT) on a ticket at a cost of half a day at home, of which I get, usually, Saturday and half of Sunday.
Yeah, I really screw the client. <expletive deleted. Sorry>
Thanx.
[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-30-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-30-2001).]
[This message has been edited by hnechets (edited 01-31-2001).]
Jan 30, 2001, 9:25 pm
#4
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Niceville, FL, USA
Posts: 2,793
My apologies to both of you about the language.
Please see the Delta forum on the $100 fee:
------------------ Quote from NoStressHere:
What a businessman. I hope you never work for my company. Bill em, screw em, not my money! Yikes!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hnechets:
Well, gee.
First of all, I do not disagree with any of the above posts. I'd just like to include another perspective on it...
Most of my changes come as a result of company/client needs. As such, it is the company/client who ultimately winds up paying for them. So, basically, I don't care in these circumstances.
----------------End quote
Please see the Delta forum on the $100 fee:
------------------ Quote from NoStressHere:
What a businessman. I hope you never work for my company. Bill em, screw em, not my money! Yikes!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hnechets:
Well, gee.
First of all, I do not disagree with any of the above posts. I'd just like to include another perspective on it...
Most of my changes come as a result of company/client needs. As such, it is the company/client who ultimately winds up paying for them. So, basically, I don't care in these circumstances.
----------------End quote
Jan 31, 2001, 8:53 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: ICT Wichita, KS
Programs: HHonors Diamond, IHG Plat, Delta Platinum, UAL 1K+Club, Natl Emerald Exec, NEXUS/Pre/Global Entry
Posts: 142
Is everyone in niceville this nice?
Most consultants I've dealt with are not as considerate with respect to travel as you have described yourself. They try to fly on 24 hours notice (when an appointment has been made three weeks in advance), stay at the downtown Hyatt (when the job site is 20 miles away), etc. Some even try to charge a markup on their travel expenses. HA. We generally make them use our travel agent and subject them to our travel policy.
Most consultants I've dealt with are not as considerate with respect to travel as you have described yourself. They try to fly on 24 hours notice (when an appointment has been made three weeks in advance), stay at the downtown Hyatt (when the job site is 20 miles away), etc. Some even try to charge a markup on their travel expenses. HA. We generally make them use our travel agent and subject them to our travel policy.
Not a great way for them to build good will and trust with your organization.
Jan 31, 2001, 10:07 am
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,725
Consultancies vary and so do consultants. I have worked alongside people whose road-warrior practices sickened me. They would pass F-upgrade surcharges along to the client, bury $100 bottles of wine in the expense reports, and insist that marking up travel costs was acceptable "to cover the cost of our time spent making the arrangements."
Nonsense. Now I help direct a firm where that kind of thing can't happen. Our road-warrior policies and expenses are an open book for our clients to inspect. And we will absolutely connect through a hub to save a client thousands of dollars over nonstop fares. (See my current Trip Report on HP through PHX, for example.)
On the other hand, educating a client helps. Not all of them realize that calling a meeting tomorrow is going to drive travel expenses higher than calling one three weeks from now. They, like we, get sticker shock over walk-up straight Y fares, so we help them plan meetings calmly and well. And because I'm billed hourly, it is less expensive to them for me to use my Avis Preferred Select card and get out of the airport in six minutes than stand in line for an hour at Akbar n' Jeff's Car Hut to knock $10 off the base day rate.
Bottom line, in the world of consultants and clients, there is plenty of abuse to watch out for on the first side... plenty of enlightenment still to be had on the second... and honesty is the best policy.
[This message has been edited by BearX220 (edited 01-31-2001).]
Nonsense. Now I help direct a firm where that kind of thing can't happen. Our road-warrior policies and expenses are an open book for our clients to inspect. And we will absolutely connect through a hub to save a client thousands of dollars over nonstop fares. (See my current Trip Report on HP through PHX, for example.)
On the other hand, educating a client helps. Not all of them realize that calling a meeting tomorrow is going to drive travel expenses higher than calling one three weeks from now. They, like we, get sticker shock over walk-up straight Y fares, so we help them plan meetings calmly and well. And because I'm billed hourly, it is less expensive to them for me to use my Avis Preferred Select card and get out of the airport in six minutes than stand in line for an hour at Akbar n' Jeff's Car Hut to knock $10 off the base day rate.
Bottom line, in the world of consultants and clients, there is plenty of abuse to watch out for on the first side... plenty of enlightenment still to be had on the second... and honesty is the best policy.
[This message has been edited by BearX220 (edited 01-31-2001).]
Jan 31, 2001, 7:01 pm
#8
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Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Niceville, FL, USA
Posts: 2,793
Well said, BearX220. I work as a consultant for a software developer -- in other words not as an independant -- and my company would not countenance that behavior for one minute. In fact, some of the things you mentioned are clearly stated in the employee handbook as "causes for immediate dismissal."
This kind of behavior is inexcuseable. And, it is one of the reasons I came on board with them.
Also, as for "covering the cost of our time spent making the arrangements," THAT, my dear friend, comes "With The Biz." In other words, the consultants deal with it at no charge to the client...that is part of the cost of doing what we do...accept no substitutes, Bear!
ever.
This kind of behavior is inexcuseable. And, it is one of the reasons I came on board with them.
Also, as for "covering the cost of our time spent making the arrangements," THAT, my dear friend, comes "With The Biz." In other words, the consultants deal with it at no charge to the client...that is part of the cost of doing what we do...accept no substitutes, Bear!
ever.
Feb 1, 2001, 7:04 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2000
Location: RDU
Programs: AA LT Gold, DL SM, HY Disc, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 12,522
I work for a consulting firm that does work for mostly state and federal government agencies. I'm billed hourly, but there's an 8-hour daily limit and we're not allowed to bill for travel time. So, a day where I work on site 7:30am-5pm and then catch a 7pm flight and get to O'Hare two hours later still only gets charged as 8 hours.
Because we're dealing with the public's money, travel costs are a huge political issue. For example, we're often set with ridiculously low hotel caps ($63/weeknight in Nashville for the State of Tennessee, for example). Our projects have pre-defined revenue caps on them, so every dollar I save on travel is a dollar I can use on labor.
When I manage projects, I research the non-refundable 14-day no-Saturday advance purchase price on American, add in the cost of a change fee ($90), and use that it our proposals as an estimate of airfare. BUT, I also explain in writing that our expectation is that meetings be scheduled 16-18 days in advance to keep costs down. An occasional short-notice meeting or trip cancellation is ok, but a consistent pattern of violating the assumptions of our proposal will result in a change order.
My clients all understand that this policy is meant to save them money and save me stress (which translates into higher fees eventually). In 2000, I had a grand total of TWO full-coach segments out of about 70 business segments, and one of those was due to me getting sick and having to abort a trip halfway.
Will I pay more to fly American? Yes, within reason, because I can be more productive to the client in the long run by putting all my flights on a single carrier. For example, the now $90 change fee is no big deal because I'll have another AA flight in a couple of weeks anyway.
Because I've developed a reputation with my clients for not screwing them, they understand when I think a higher travel cost is justified. But, I'll only pay about 25% more, after that I think it's unethical.
So then, if I'm going to New England, I'll fly into Hartford (lots of flights with a $338 RT at 7 days, the cheapest in all of NE) and drive a couple of hours instead. To the west coast on short notice, I'll fly American to Vegas (the least restrictive business fares) and then interline to HP or WN for the last few miles.
The only other caveats are that I will not fly on:
1. ATA (cannot deal with the pitch),
2. Beechcraft 1900s (I vomit on them, not good for the suit), or
3. Any of the minor airlines like Spirit with less than 15 planes (too much risk of a trip getting destroyed because of a cancellation).
[This message has been edited by ElmhurstNick (edited 02-01-2001).]
Because we're dealing with the public's money, travel costs are a huge political issue. For example, we're often set with ridiculously low hotel caps ($63/weeknight in Nashville for the State of Tennessee, for example). Our projects have pre-defined revenue caps on them, so every dollar I save on travel is a dollar I can use on labor.
When I manage projects, I research the non-refundable 14-day no-Saturday advance purchase price on American, add in the cost of a change fee ($90), and use that it our proposals as an estimate of airfare. BUT, I also explain in writing that our expectation is that meetings be scheduled 16-18 days in advance to keep costs down. An occasional short-notice meeting or trip cancellation is ok, but a consistent pattern of violating the assumptions of our proposal will result in a change order.
My clients all understand that this policy is meant to save them money and save me stress (which translates into higher fees eventually). In 2000, I had a grand total of TWO full-coach segments out of about 70 business segments, and one of those was due to me getting sick and having to abort a trip halfway.
Will I pay more to fly American? Yes, within reason, because I can be more productive to the client in the long run by putting all my flights on a single carrier. For example, the now $90 change fee is no big deal because I'll have another AA flight in a couple of weeks anyway.
Because I've developed a reputation with my clients for not screwing them, they understand when I think a higher travel cost is justified. But, I'll only pay about 25% more, after that I think it's unethical.
So then, if I'm going to New England, I'll fly into Hartford (lots of flights with a $338 RT at 7 days, the cheapest in all of NE) and drive a couple of hours instead. To the west coast on short notice, I'll fly American to Vegas (the least restrictive business fares) and then interline to HP or WN for the last few miles.
The only other caveats are that I will not fly on:
1. ATA (cannot deal with the pitch),
2. Beechcraft 1900s (I vomit on them, not good for the suit), or
3. Any of the minor airlines like Spirit with less than 15 planes (too much risk of a trip getting destroyed because of a cancellation).
[This message has been edited by ElmhurstNick (edited 02-01-2001).]