Betterthanyou

Generally speaking, if you are not willing to pay for something, don't complain when you don't receive it.

CMK10

I agree with the OP (and on the metaphor too, I can't imagine why anyone would buy an Audi A3 for example). I think PY also sets people up for disappointment because the airline markets it like it's PREMIUM economy when it's still premium ECONOMY.

cockpitvisit

The same question was probably asked decades ago when airlines introduced Business Class

Comfort wise, today's PE is what Business Class used to be like 25 years ago. And today's Business Class is what First Class used to be like 25 years ago.

The comfort in premium classes is constantly improving, while the comfort in Y is constantly deteriorating. PE simply fills this ever-growing gap.

pinniped

Probably not - that would feel a little awkward and probably impact our full enjoyment of J. They're good kids and they've been to Europe a few times, but leaving them on their own for their first TPAC at 2x the length of a TATL isn't something we'd do. And I wouldn't want to be one of those people who is constantly scurrying between cabins or having the kids bug FAs to come into J. Nobody likes that.

If we run into some weird availability issues, I'd maybe do 1 J and 3 PE, wife in J, and everybody stays in their own cabins during the flight.

evergrn

Yeah it's definitely not ideal. Nonetheless I have to do it occasionally.

For instance, we're going to a place on the opposite end of the earth this fall. My wife really wanted to go.
It's a super-long flight, and I have to work the next day. Plus my back gets sore quick. So I just can't deal with economy seating for that long of a flight.
But PE is 2x the cost of Y. I can't afford this trip if the entire family flies PE. Kids are too young to sit by themselves in Y, so we can't do me and my wife in PE and kids in the back, either. So as bad as this may look, we're going with me in PE (wife and I will look to split some time as long as FA allows) and the rest in Y.

MaxBuck

It makes fiscal sense to me. I've flown my last "basic economy" fare, aside from Southwest. Just not worth spending 2-3 + hours in such discomfort.

MaxBuck

I'm not paying for capitalization; I'm paying for added seat pitch.

emma69

A thought on this - if you can get the last row of PE and the wife and kids can get the first row of economy, firstly, should be some extra leg room for them, but secondly, any moving around would be very minimal.

pinniped

Indeed. Since the product hasn't standardized completely across the industry, you have to look closely at each airline and aircraft type to figure out what you're getting. The CX product I'm looking at for next year is 40x20, which seems like it's on the better end of PE offerings. Can't tell degrees of recline yet, but I would think there's some (?) correlation between pitch and recline. More room for recline in a 40" config than a 36" one. At least I would hope...

rufflesinc

THis is the true comparision OP wants to get at with "entry level luxury being gauche." A company that wants their employees to fly long haul for work but refuses to shell out the money for them to fly J. Sorry but I won't work for companies that force such travel.

Betterthanyou

It seems that there is an increase of pax outraged by the deterioration of Economy..they remember the days of better, wider seats, free bags and a meal every flight. What they forget is that the deterioration in service and comfort is matched by a deterioration in price.

Sure, it's cramped and there are fees for what used to be included..but the fact is, you can fly across the country for a few hundred dollars. You can fly in a region for under 200 dollars. Flying is now affordable to the lower classes in a way it never was before. People who used to take Greyhound can now fly. And the reason this is so is because airlines have figured out how to capture marketshare by dropping the frills and lowering the price. The consumer benefits by getting cheap fares.

So if you complain about the loss of amenities, remember how much tix were when those were included. Flying today is easy compared with 20+ years ago when a higher % of your income was required to do it.

You can have it good and expensive, or bad and cheap. You can't have it good and cheap.

pinniped

To be fair, this is asymmetrical. In some markets, the airline cartel in conjunction with complicit governments have eliminated competition and raised fares in addition to deteriorating service and more junk fees. In other markets, competition has driven prices down to historic lows. On net, for my mix of routes, I've benefited. (TATL routes and west coast U.S. routes make up a lot of my travel.) But there are other routes where I can understand why people are mad. They see airlines posting record profits, delivering a bad product, and don't get the benefit of the low fares.

I'm trying to decide how much I agree with this. I think of lots of products that I actually do expect it to get both better and cheaper over time. I guess it comes down to how we define air travel as "good", in which case there's value in lots of things besides the inflight amenities. Industry safety records are better. Airline websites and apps are gradually getting better. Most premium cabins are better - and in many cases actually priced for an individual as opposed to corporate buyer. There's some good to go with the bad, and ultimately whether you perceive it to add up to greater value probably depends on whether your given route has robust competition or not.

rufflesinc

oh really?

emma69

One of the biggest factors between PE in my experience is if there is a footrest or not. Makes much more difference to comfort for me than additional recline (assuming not fully flat).

emma69

I wish! Try living beside one of the world's most expensive airports to fly from - we pay more in taxes and fees form some flights from Toronto than I paid all in for a domestic flight from Buffalo. In the last decade or so, they have done away with free checked bags, free seat selection, free meals short haul, free alcoholic drinks short haul, and the price has only gone up.