Airline Service Cutbacks -Basic Econ etc. should be illegal
#46




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People understand this concept easily for lower-priced items. Wine is a good example. You can buy a bottle for $8 (with a screw-top lid) or pay more--many hundreds of dollars more, if you like--for a better product. When the entry-level product is a couple hundred dollars, many see it differently.
On my airline, it is usually the extra legroom seats which are booked last and/or are the seats which remain empty on a nearly full flight. Those passengers in regular economy are choosing not to spend more for the available seats with more room.
Perhaps for new airplanes but that would make most of today's narrowbody airplanes financially unviable.
The B737, the most prolific jet airliner in the world, has seats with a width of 17.3". If you were to bring those up to 18" you'd lose 4.2" which would either make the aisle so narrow everyone would have to go down it sideways or you'd have to remove 1/6th of the seats on the airplane.
#47


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Perhaps for new airplanes but that would make most of today's narrowbody airplanes financially unviable.
The B737, the most prolific jet airliner in the world, has seats with a width of 17.3". If you were to bring those up to 18" you'd lose 4.2" which would either make the aisle so narrow everyone would have to go down it sideways or you'd have to remove 1/6th of the seats on the airplane.
The B737, the most prolific jet airliner in the world, has seats with a width of 17.3". If you were to bring those up to 18" you'd lose 4.2" which would either make the aisle so narrow everyone would have to go down it sideways or you'd have to remove 1/6th of the seats on the airplane.
#48
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I'm fine with regulating some aspects of air travel if there's a health and safety issue. The problem is that I'm not sure 17" seat width among other things rises to that level (yet, anyway).
Really, anti-trust laws need to be updated for the modern era. I imagine some of the more recent mergers (in all industries, not just travel) would have at least gotten far more scrutiny if that happened.
Really, anti-trust laws need to be updated for the modern era. I imagine some of the more recent mergers (in all industries, not just travel) would have at least gotten far more scrutiny if that happened.
#49




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#50
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Consumer welfare is maximized when consumers can make more informed purchase decisions and do so most easily. One way for that is to have a common standard, one that could be higher than the present.
. And while a higher common minimum standard mandated by government may result in upward pressure on prices, it may also enable greater competition that actually lowers prices over time.
#51




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#52
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They may still be financially viable enough, and Id more than welcome to see what happens in the aftermath of instituting a more consumer-friendly mandate on higher minimum seating comfort standards and other inclusions for all US flight passengers.
When major airline industry cartel kingpins say or act as if passenger demand is highly inelastic, then lets just see how inelastic it is in the aftermath of mandating things like minimum seat width, seat bottom size, leg space and so on.
When major airline industry cartel kingpins say or act as if passenger demand is highly inelastic, then lets just see how inelastic it is in the aftermath of mandating things like minimum seat width, seat bottom size, leg space and so on.
#53




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To those who are clamoring for government regulation of comfort standards, I have a question: What on earth would lead you to believe that the US government (left/right/center/doesn't matter who is in charge) would somehow manage to get THIS right?
This is the same government that can't stop leaking radioactive material into the groundwater (and hence, the Columbia River) at Hanford. The same government who was ridiculed for years for their inability to source a hammer for less than $700 and toilet seats for less than $2k. The same government that in general, isn't uniquely qualified to investigate anything more complicated than a knock at the door.
Etc, etc, AND etc.
Is there anything more than wishful thinking behind the notion that they can get this one thing right?
This is the same government that can't stop leaking radioactive material into the groundwater (and hence, the Columbia River) at Hanford. The same government who was ridiculed for years for their inability to source a hammer for less than $700 and toilet seats for less than $2k. The same government that in general, isn't uniquely qualified to investigate anything more complicated than a knock at the door.
Etc, etc, AND etc.
Is there anything more than wishful thinking behind the notion that they can get this one thing right?
#54




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They may still be financially viable enough, and I’d more than welcome to see what happens in the aftermath of instituting a more consumer-friendly mandate on higher minimum seating comfort standards and other inclusions for all US flight passengers.
When major airline industry cartel kingpins say or act as if passenger demand is highly inelastic, then let’s just see how inelastic it is in the aftermath of mandating things like minimum seat width, seat bottom size, leg space and so on.
Also, you are demanding the airlines be required to assume the risk in this....YOU may welcome the results of seeing what happens if such things were mandated.... but what if you are wrong, demand IS indeed inelastic, and the airlines lose a whole bunch of money on your idea?
#55
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With of course increased cost. The success of LCCs like Spirit and Ryanair and Easyjet should provide ample evidence that what most (or enough) passengers want is the cheapest possible price. For an example from the other direction - look what happened to AA's "More room in Coach".
Also, you are demanding the airlines be required to assume the risk in this....YOU may welcome the results of seeing what happens if such things were mandated.... but what if you are wrong, demand IS indeed inelastic, and the airlines lose a whole bunch of money on your idea?
Also, you are demanding the airlines be required to assume the risk in this....YOU may welcome the results of seeing what happens if such things were mandated.... but what if you are wrong, demand IS indeed inelastic, and the airlines lose a whole bunch of money on your idea?
What most US passenger seem to want is the best value that money can provide, for I am sure that they mostly value their life and limbs even if the airlines were allowed even more to cut back on all health and safety standards and claimed to be doing so to give the cheapest possible price. Purchase decisions are about utility-maximization, not cheapest possible price.
Airlines already assume some regulatory risk for participation in the market like they do, so adjusting their regulatory risk to a higher standard for consumers health, safety and comfort is fine by me. And the risk of business is that businesses can lose money in the face of many things, so I say no big deal if the airlines face a risk of higher costs in this regard too. Government shouldnt exist to secure the profits of airlines; nor should government insulate airlines from market and regulatory risk; and so I say bring it on. The airline cartel industry kingpins and their free-riding competitors have been coddled too much and for too long by government already, and the arrival of a more level playing field for consumers is long over due.
I do have to wonder if you understand what is meant by saying the demand is indeed inelastic. It would actually undercut your airline company-defending argument seeking to maximize airline profits, if I were wrong.
Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 25, 2018 at 4:07 am
#56




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#57
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And when demand is high, there may even be new entrants and other expansion, in terms of airlines and airports, to get in on the business for the same and others.
#58




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These are the people who are already going who wouldn't be able to go with 17% fewer narrowbody seats. If they already aren't going then a reduction is seats wouldn't affect them.
Last edited by LarryJ; Dec 25, 2018 at 11:38 pm
#59
Moderator: Manufactured Spending



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I don't think that is the answer. The airline industry, as a whole, is hugely unprofitable. It's one of the few industries that has basically not made a profit ever since it was established. Mergers may reduce competition, but they are preferable to bankruptcies, which were a regular occurrence in the industry up until the most recent round of mergers. Profit margins in the aviation industry are small enough that it is unlikely that more competition would benefit customers in any way. In fact, it might accelerate the race to the bottom as smaller airlines struggled to survive.
#60
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A reduction or increase in seats available for sale may affect people who arent flying today and it may affect people who are flying today.

