evergrn

I've done my share of biz traveler criticisms on this thread, because that's what this thread is about and there were some valid points to be made. But yes there are unpleasant traits tied to leisure travelers, as well. Such as tendency to ask to swap seats, amongst other things.

Anyways, at the end of the day, most biz travelers are cool and most leisure travelers are cool. Actually, the worst group are the US airline employees... actually I should say gate agents and FA's (since I don't really interact with most others). Of course, most airline employees are fine and some are exceptional, but the percentage of unpleasant people amongst them must be significantly higher than business or leisure travelers. For every ~4 segments, I come across at least one FA who's totally rude. Yesterday the FA inadvertently but literally swung her forearm right into my temple. She says "you okay?" and I say yes and she then just carries on without saying another word to me. I think any business or leisure traveler would've apologized to me. In fact, in my work (which is unrelated to travel/airlines), the client who wins the DYKWIA award so far this year happens to be an airline employee.

ft101

If you're this worked up on a forum I can't imagine what you're like when travelling. It's not all about you and just because the rules say something is allowed, sometimes its common courtesy and makes life easier if you don't push the rules to the limit.

NYTA

I only get worked up on forums (and in real life) when busybodies try to tell me when I'm doing something completely accepted, expected and reasonable, that I should do what they prefer instead for no other reason than that's what they prefer.

Badenoch

How does it make my "life easier" by not taking maximum advantage of the rules? For what earthly reason would I limit my options if the rules allow it?

ft101

Courtesy and common sense seem to be less accepted, expected and reasonable in some cases.


Because someone else is doing the heavy lifting and carrying for you, allowing you to take it easy. Airlines have made these rules for their benefit, not yours.

Badenoch

If someone else is allowing me to take it easy how does my life in your words become "easier" if I don't continue to let them do it? If the airline rules benefit them and me why would I object?

NYTA

Waiting 45 minutes or more for my bag does not make my life easier. In fact, it makes it harder - even when I'm "taking it easy" on vacation - I'd rather spend those 45 minutes lounging by the pool. You're basically asking me to check my bag and waste a lot of my time just so that you have more room to put your bags in the overhead. And you commented earlier "it's not all about you" - apparently you're the only one whose convenience matters here and you expect others to accommodate you.

RichMSN

I'm with you. If you can get everything into a legal carry-on, that's exactly what you can and should do.

nerd

I don't think the non-elites at the back of the line are paying as much attention to you as perhaps you'd like them to be.

lhrsfo

This is turning into the classic dichotomy between individual actions and the greater good. The permitted individual actions, when taken en masse, create a less desirable outcome for the majority. So do you curtail them in the name of the greater good, or do you permit them in the name of individual liberty? Or, to put it in numbers, it takes UA the best part of 40 minutes to load a 737 and FR under 15 minutes, the difference largely because of hand luggage. So, the greater good would be to require those with large carry-ons to check them (assuming, of course, that they will be delivered within 10 minutes, say (which they normally are)). The entire plane load saves 25 minutes. But individual liberty allows those who don't care about the effect of their actions on others to avoid the baggage claim and save themselves 10 minutes, causing everyone else to waste 25 minutes at the start and 10 minutes at the end.

NYTA

I don't know how often you fly, but I have NEVER gotten a checked bag in 10 minutes unless it was gate checked on a regional jet in the USA and even then sometimes not. My last trip to Orlando I waited an hour and a half to get my checked bags. Again - the airlines have decided on this system so it's really not a question of "the greater good" - these are for profit businesses, not Aeroflot from the Soviet days - a great example of an airline run for the "greater good" that was crappy as a result.

RichMSN

If it's a carry-on, it's a carry-on. The airline sets the size guidelines.

When I travel, I either (1) choose to take a legal carryon and pack accordingly or (2) take a larger bag and know I am required to check it.

If I sacrifice space to carry my bag on, why on earth would I then choose to check it? The only time I've done this is when I would have been required to pay for checked luggage and I was offered a free check at the gate AND didn't care about the wait (mainly because we traveled as a family and did have one free checked bag).

NYTA

For what it's worth, when checked luggage was free there was less of an issue with carry on space in the overheads so those of you who don't like people bringing rollaboards on board you ought to blame the airlines for encouraging the occasional traveler to carry on instead of check. The "greater good" theory would make all checked luggage free. Instead the airlines earn billions of dollars in checked luggage fees.

PaxALotl

Ahh, yes. The old 'blame it all on the evil corporations' thing.

But really, you can also blame passengers because time and time again passengers demonstrate that they prefer cheaper fares + individual priced options (like checking bags and drinks) over all-in fares that are a bit higher. Of course, passengers love to complain about this, "I can't believe that they are charging me for a drink!". but abundant market research shows they prefer this. If the airlines had research that showed the passengers would prefer a more expensive, but all-in, fare that included bags/drinks/etc, you can bet they'd be marketing flights like that.

So, yes, the airlines are profit driven and will maximize revenue by marketing flights in the way that passengers 'want' or will respond to - regardless of that that is. Is it the greater good to charge everyone more and include checked bags? Or to charge everyone less and charge for bags? What is the ethically sound thing to do? What about passengers who don't need drinks or checked bags, and don't want to pay for them. What about their greater good?

Your ethical argument is very weak.

Badenoch

If they weren't why would this thread even exist? The glares and occasional remarks as they go through business class to the back or as I proceed past a long line of kettles and gate lice plane are reminders of my success in life. I appreciate the recognition. Thank-you.