Two nations separated by a common car transmission (automatic vs standard (manual))
Feb 18, 2017, 4:16 pm
#61
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Feb 18, 2017, 4:24 pm
#62
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Feb 18, 2017, 5:05 pm
#63
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The problem is that many don't offer smaller cars with automatic and you have to take a bigger/premium car to get automatic.
I've tested on Sixt in MUC and the cheapest car was ~31€/day (VW Polo or comparable). The smallest (and cheapest) automatic was a BMW 1 series for 51€/day (bigger than the Polo and a premium vehicle). That's roughly double. But a comparable manual car is equally expensive. The BMW 2 series with a manual was 52€/day. The BMW 3 series with a manual compared rather well to the BMW 3 touring with the automatic gearbox.
I've tested on Sixt in MUC and the cheapest car was ~31€/day (VW Polo or comparable). The smallest (and cheapest) automatic was a BMW 1 series for 51€/day (bigger than the Polo and a premium vehicle). That's roughly double. But a comparable manual car is equally expensive. The BMW 2 series with a manual was 52€/day. The BMW 3 series with a manual compared rather well to the BMW 3 touring with the automatic gearbox.
Feb 18, 2017, 7:37 pm
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Feb 19, 2017, 7:02 am
#65
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I've never had quite that problem. If I push a nonexistent clutch my foot realizes the problem in time, I don't stomp on the floor. The problem is automatics have a wider brake pedal--more than once I've caught that pedal instead of the clutch that isn't there. Of course my left foot tries to push it to the floor. I learned on a car with a [b]very[/b stiff clutch. (My father had a problem with riding the clutch while going up through the gears. A friend who was aware of this did the clutch replacement--and put in parts for a much heavier clutch. Thus my foot is willing to push quite hard to get that clutch to go down.)
Feb 19, 2017, 8:52 am
#66
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I like the joke about a manual transmission being the best anti-theft device...
Automatics are now to the point where they get better mileage than manuals. Also, the automatic braking including on many cars, and soon to be required, is problematic with a manual as a complete automatic stop results in the engine shutting down.
I have one manual, on a 2002 Jetta TDI, because it got better mileage and the automatic wasn't a very good one back then. My other two cars are automatics.
Automatics are now to the point where they get better mileage than manuals. Also, the automatic braking including on many cars, and soon to be required, is problematic with a manual as a complete automatic stop results in the engine shutting down.
I have one manual, on a 2002 Jetta TDI, because it got better mileage and the automatic wasn't a very good one back then. My other two cars are automatics.
Feb 19, 2017, 10:00 am
#68
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Feb 19, 2017, 10:02 am
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Also, in the plus column I'll add one more feature: If you need to stomp on the gas to get out of the way a manual is better than an auto. The auto will rev up the engine, decide it should be in the lower gear, slow the engine, shift and rev it again. The manual will simply let the engine rev. If you stomp on the pedal while driving you don't care about fuel economy at the moment!
When in Europe I drive a manual because they're much cheaper to rent, but in the U.S. my preference is definitely an automatic, especially for big city driving.
Feb 19, 2017, 10:39 am
#70
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The historic issue with automatics is the technology that used to be used. A heavy torque convertor (a round viscous coupler that usually didn't lock up so every revolution of input resulted in less than one revolution of output) was attached to the engine. Turning this weight took off a certain amount of HP (and fuel economy) - which was significant for small engines, not so much if you had a huge torquey V8 up front. Add to that the limited gear range (2 or 3 forward speeds) and you had this huge gap that often resulted in the engine speed falling out of the torque band. More a problem with low-torque/narrow torque band engines - usually small - than large V8s.
These days, the torque convertors have been replaced by the dual shift clutch so there's no huge attached weight, and speeds have been increased, with For and GM having jointly developed a 10 speed. Computer shifting is also a lot faster which has resulted in the fuel economy of some automatic cars being better than their otherwise identical manual counterparts.
As for driving, I driven otherwise near-identical cars that have auto and manual. First was in Iceland where the rental we picked up in KEF was manual and the car we got in AEY (as warned by the agent, was auto). The cars were just your every car so the manual had better performance and no traffic issues in Iceland anyway.
Drove a Fiat 500 in Austria a few years ago and it was fun with the manual. An auto (albeit different spec made/assembled in Mexico) in Canada wasn't as much fun and I wasn't sure if the shift programming was spot on. Haven't driven any other near-identical cars to compare otherwise.
These days, the torque convertors have been replaced by the dual shift clutch so there's no huge attached weight, and speeds have been increased, with For and GM having jointly developed a 10 speed. Computer shifting is also a lot faster which has resulted in the fuel economy of some automatic cars being better than their otherwise identical manual counterparts.
As for driving, I driven otherwise near-identical cars that have auto and manual. First was in Iceland where the rental we picked up in KEF was manual and the car we got in AEY (as warned by the agent, was auto). The cars were just your every car so the manual had better performance and no traffic issues in Iceland anyway.
Drove a Fiat 500 in Austria a few years ago and it was fun with the manual. An auto (albeit different spec made/assembled in Mexico) in Canada wasn't as much fun and I wasn't sure if the shift programming was spot on. Haven't driven any other near-identical cars to compare otherwise.
Feb 19, 2017, 11:24 am
#71
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(Driving a car in SFO or any city with tons of up-/downhill is obviously more challenging for the clutch.)
Regarding same cars: I've driven VW Polos with petrol engines and VWs baby DSG (double clutch gearbox with dry-running clutches capable of handling up to 250 Nm worth of torque) and VW Polos with diesel engines and manual gearbox: The petrol Polo with the DSG is at ~60mph more economical than the diesel manual as it has 7 gears vs. 5 gears. Above that speed, the diesel manual becomes more fuel-efficient again. IMO VWs has set up the gearbox too much on fuel efficiency. The gearbox is constantly shifting (6th at 30mph).
The difference in weight makes quite a difference. The diesel feels more planted on the road. The power-steering is less perceivable and it feels slightly heavier (which I like).
Feb 19, 2017, 1:47 pm
#72
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For those of you who haven't driven manual all that much, with enough practice, driving a manual is no different than driving an automatic. After enough practice, you stop thinking about when to shift and do it automatically 
Feb 19, 2017, 2:21 pm
#73
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On Cars talked about this in their latest episode. They didn't indicate that any of them did. Either the manual version didn't have the full-stop auto braking or the engine would be killed during such a stop.
Feb 19, 2017, 3:05 pm
#74
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By definition all dual clutch transmissions have a drive by wire clutch(es). Otherwise the other ones I can think of would be the BMW SMG and SMGII gearboxes (horrid things imo) and the Ferrari sequentials from the 355/360 (and later?) era
Feb 19, 2017, 3:13 pm
#75
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I'm not sure if they are needed. If the system only works for speeds inferior to ~20mph, you'll probably be in 2nd gear and by the time, the engine can actually stall, you'll be slow enough (and the brake pressure high enough) to stop.