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Old Mar 22, 2016 | 7:30 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by fassy
Hmm, in all of the European Companies I worked for (and two of them were 120k+ employee companies) you had to have receipts for every expense. Even for the 1.10€ for a tram ticket.

I lost quite a bit of money on my travels since I just couldn't find a manageable way to store all the receipts and find them when I was preparing my expense reports or I was so annoyed photographing/scanning all those small snippets that I just said... f*** it, I won't spend 10 hours in front of my desk to claim back 50€.

Officially they said it was required by the tax authorities (Germany, Austria, Netherlands, Sweden) while I do not believe that to be entirely true. I think it was that they counted on the employees being lazy and saving money this way.

Now I'm working a freelancer and put in my contracts that I will charge the per diem rates as posted by the US State Department since that list is updated quite frequently and has most of the places in the world in it with reasonable amounts.

All of my clients are fine with that and so far I did not get any issues with the tax authorities for not providing all the receipts.
I am supposed to have receipts for all expenses, because that is what the company requires to claim amounts under the correct tax regulations. There are some expenses they can deduct, there are some expenses where only a partial deduction is allowed, and there are other expenses which there is no tax deduction, but that my company will reimburse me for.

When I travel for business I keep my daily receipts, including subway / tram tickets, receipts for snacks, etc. in my purse, and each evening I put the day's receipts in a hotel envelope, and write on the outside the amounts paid, whether they were cash or credit card, and also log any times I was unable to get a receipt (limited exceptions are made to our policy for things like tips to maid, bellboy, bars in certain countries that simply don't give receipts etc.) Takes 5 mins max if I do it each day, and means when I get back to the office, and sit down to do my expenses, I have all the information to hand, and I don't forget things!
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Old Mar 22, 2016 | 7:47 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by emma69
I am supposed to have receipts for all expenses, because that is what the company requires to claim amounts under the correct tax regulations. There are some expenses they can deduct, there are some expenses where only a partial deduction is allowed, and there are other expenses which there is no tax deduction, but that my company will reimburse me for.

When I travel for business I keep my daily receipts, including subway / tram tickets, receipts for snacks, etc. in my purse, and each evening I put the day's receipts in a hotel envelope, and write on the outside the amounts paid, whether they were cash or credit card, and also log any times I was unable to get a receipt (limited exceptions are made to our policy for things like tips to maid, bellboy, bars in certain countries that simply don't give receipts etc.) Takes 5 mins max if I do it each day, and means when I get back to the office, and sit down to do my expenses, I have all the information to hand, and I don't forget things!
Still sounds like a pain in the butt. I just take a photo with our expenses app, Concur, and then I can tag the receipt image to the expense item on my expense report directly.
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Old Mar 22, 2016 | 7:48 am
  #18  
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Before writing up a policy, I would take a step back and look at the profile of the employees who will travel and the nature of their travel.

1. Who are the employees? Are they senior professionals and what sorts of work do they do? Do they have marketing and business development responsibilities?

2. What sorts of competetive pressures does your company face? It's fine to require your people to stay in a Motel Six and take Super Shuttle, but that won't work if the competitor down the street can at least make all other things equal and pay for a Four Seasons and car service.

3. Is travel largely to specific destinations where you have a good handle on expenses or is it far flung? If 95% of the travel is to five cities, you can be pretty specific without hemming people in. If travel is worldwide, there needs to be more flexibility.

4. What sorts of travel? Is 95% of it short-haul domestic where it simply doesn't pay to even consider F or is 95% of it ultra long-haul international where F/J really is important?

Once you have the basics down, you can then turn to the specifics. Why worry about whether there needs to be a per diem supplement in Omsk if nobody in your company ever has or will travel there?

Business development may be an important issue. It's one thing to worry a bit about what are reasonable allowances for an individual's meals to keep them fed and content on the road. But, if having them do some entertaining on the road is part of the job, there are many other considerations. If some of this is overseas, there are FCPA and other anti-bribery and even cultrural issues to consider.

Finally, receipts are an issue. If you are solely a US-based company where all of your employees as US-based, take a look at IRS rules and start with those as a minimum. If the IRS only requires receipts for <$25, why are you requiring receipts for <$25 from people you trust with $ Millions in new business?

Finally, do a bit of looking at what all of this costs. Time is money. The example above where an individual stuffs envelopes with paper receipts and then sits at their desk and fills out an expense form which then has to be processed by someone else, can't possibly be cost-effective if it includes items of minimal value.
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Old Mar 22, 2016 | 8:00 am
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I have worked for various companies with various policies. The best one was the simplest:

Give them X amount budget. Fixed. So long as they stay within the allotted amount, don't worry if they spent it on bubble gum or meals. Let them book their own hotels and flights and cars. So long as it is within budget, it should not be a concern.

You may think that using a travel service will standardize and reduce expenses, the truth is, this is not actually the case.

When I was given the freedom to book my own travels within my own budget limits, I tried to maximize return. This mean I became a great deal hunter...through things like Hotwire I could end up in a 5 star resort for 3 star money. I flew direct everywhere, rather than through 2 cities with tight connections merely to save 20 dollars. This meant a happier employee and better work.and I didn't burn out. Some times I even saved thousands. For example, I got a flight to the UK down 1900 dollars by going tuesday to tuesday rather than monday to friday. That freedom and flexibility saved the company money.

Going to a travel service means a computer basically picks the itinerary and hotels, it does not think creatively nor does it get the most practical deals. If I need to go from X to Y, it will pick what it thinks is the cheapest flight and route me through W and Z, making the trip take 6 hours longer. and often causing additional costs due to stupidly tight connections, missed flights, and lost work time. Travel services don't care if the employee had to run through DFW for a 30 minute connection..and all for a savings sometimes of less than 10 dollars. It sees that it's 10 less and books it robotically.

The other issue was using preferred companies. I worked for a company that struck a deal with Avis. We suddenly had to use it for all trips..the problem was that Avis, even with the corporate discount, was almost never the cheapest. When I had freedom to choose I could get a car for 75 a day..when the deal with Avis came along, that went up to an average of 110 a day. How they thought this saved them money was beyond me. So stay away from preferred vendors, as the discounts are a bit of an illusion.

Another incentive was the "rollover" budget. What I did not spend of my budget in a month was rolled over into the next month. This made me more willing to get those discounts and stay under budget, leaving me wiggle room later in the year if I needed it.

Increase those budgets for international trips to destinations where costs are higher. For example, Japan. If you cannot find a hotel for less than 200 per night, fixed budgets become a problem. 120 per night max may work for Des Moines, but not for Tokyo. Keep that in mind and include it in the policy.

Per diems as well. I think 50 to 60 is reasonable..but as I say, if you just have a fixed budget the employee can work it out. I never ate breakfast, usually had a small lunch (sandwich etc, under 10 dollars) and would get a nice dinner.

Many companies allow higher classes of travel for longer flights. C is reasonable on flights over 8 hours, at least for senior management.

Most importantly, if you are providing corporate credit cards, allow the employee to retain the rewards associated with them. I worked for a company that let us do this if we paid the company 75 dollars for the year. The benefit was that the card would collect miles and benefits that usually ended with us getting upgrades and free hotels, and some of us even used it for biz trips to stretch the budget.

Last edited by Proudelitist; Mar 22, 2016 at 8:10 am
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 9:07 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
You may think that using a travel service will standardize and reduce expenses, the truth is, this is not actually the case.

When I was given the freedom to book my own travels within my own budget limits, I tried to maximize return. This mean I became a great deal hunter...through things like Hotwire I could end up in a 5 star resort for 3 star money. I flew direct everywhere, rather than through 2 cities with tight connections merely to save 20 dollars. This meant a happier employee and better work.and I didn't burn out. Some times I even saved thousands. For example, I got a flight to the UK down 1900 dollars by going tuesday to tuesday rather than monday to friday. That freedom and flexibility saved the company money.

Going to a travel service means a computer basically picks the itinerary and hotels, it does not think creatively nor does it get the most practical deals. If I need to go from X to Y, it will pick what it thinks is the cheapest flight and route me through W and Z, making the trip take 6 hours longer. and often causing additional costs due to stupidly tight connections, missed flights, and lost work time. Travel services don't care if the employee had to run through DFW for a 30 minute connection..and all for a savings sometimes of less than 10 dollars. It sees that it's 10 less and books it robotically.
I will disagree slightly on this. If you have people travelling who are not experienced travelers, don't know the ins and outs, then having a good travel agent to assist can make things a lot easier all round (especially for their poor secretaries!) The person I use for complex itineraries / group travel is fantastic, they don't let a computer make decisions, are widely traveled themselves so give real-life advice. They also apply common sense (e.g. an itinerary that is $30 cheaper but involved changing airports in London is not cheaper!) I totally agree with 'corporate booking agents' who are glorified call centre folk with no actual knowledge - we used Carlson at a former firm and I spent half my life explaining 'travel policy exceptions' to management for the department!
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 12:27 pm
  #21  
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Depending on where your people travel, there might be security considerations. Many firms forbid revealing the name of the company in public, such as on a luggage tag (no laminated business cards). Computer security is a big deal when in Russia and China. In the extreme, you might want to require an armed body guard in certain locations, pay for kidnapping insurance, get a security consultant, or send certain travelers to security school.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 12:54 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Depending on where your people travel, there might be security considerations. Many firms forbid revealing the name of the company in public, such as on a luggage tag (no laminated business cards). Computer security is a big deal when in Russia and China. In the extreme, you might want to require an armed body guard in certain locations, pay for kidnapping insurance, get a security consultant, or send certain travelers to security school.
Good point, but 99% of travel will be in the lower 48 states.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 1:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Proudelitist
Going to a travel service means a computer basically picks the itinerary and hotels, it does not think creatively nor does it get the most practical deals. If I need to go from X to Y, it will pick what it thinks is the cheapest flight and route me through W and Z, making the trip take 6 hours longer. and often causing additional costs due to stupidly tight connections, missed flights, and lost work time. Travel services don't care if the employee had to run through DFW for a 30 minute connection..and all for a savings sometimes of less than 10 dollars. It sees that it's 10 less and books it robotically.
The popular notion that computerized travel services book crazy itineraries with multiple connections, alternate airports, and undesirable departure times just because they're $20 cheaper than a nonstop is not true in my experience. I've used computerized systems for the past 8 years across 3 different employers, and they're easily configurable to select reasonable itineraries. In fact the one my current employer uses shows a "Most logical airfare" atop the list of search results, and it's nearly always the flight I identified as most desirable from my own searching beforehand.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 2:02 pm
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Originally Posted by emma69
I will disagree slightly on this. If you have people travelling who are not experienced travelers, don't know the ins and outs, then having a good travel agent to assist can make things a lot easier all round (especially for their poor secretaries!) The person I use for complex itineraries / group travel is fantastic, they don't let a computer make decisions, are widely traveled themselves so give real-life advice. They also apply common sense (e.g. an itinerary that is $30 cheaper but involved changing airports in London is not cheaper!) I totally agree with 'corporate booking agents' who are glorified call centre folk with no actual knowledge - we used Carlson at a former firm and I spent half my life explaining 'travel policy exceptions' to management for the department!
Indeed, short of having a "Travel Hacks" training program for newbies it can be wasteful with them..but then, with a fixed budget, there is not much damage they can do. As I say, if they get to spend X, they can spend it stupidly..for example, paying too much for a flight and eating McDonalds the whole time as a result..and it won't matter, because so long as they stay in budget you were willing to part with that amount.

I do like that a PERSON does your booking though! It requires a human.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 3:10 pm
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Originally Posted by darthbimmer
The popular notion that computerized travel services book crazy itineraries with multiple connections, alternate airports, and undesirable departure times just because they're $20 cheaper than a nonstop is not true in my experience. I've used computerized systems for the past 8 years across 3 different employers, and they're easily configurable to select reasonable itineraries. In fact the one my current employer uses shows a "Most logical airfare" atop the list of search results, and it's nearly always the flight I identified as most desirable from my own searching beforehand.
+1 - This is largely a function of employers who use software such as Concur to severely restrict travel options such that the software generates absurd routings. This causes people who are employed at those businesses to post on FT that they hate Concur when Concur has nothing to do with it.

The problem can often be traced back to having corporate travel managed by people who don't travel.

The same goes for travel budgets. Tell someone they have a budget and let them take 2 days to make it across the country rather than 6 hours and you have someone who hits the mark on budget with a P&L that looks sickly.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 3:44 pm
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Why put more restrictions on your employees than the IRS already does?
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by gfunkdave
That bit about the personal card is crazy. Ugh.

I thought E&Y had the best policy when I worked there: no receipts needed for expenses $75 and lower (later lowered to $25). Meal limits were set by the client, but were usually left up to your judgment. My favorites were straight per diems (usually about $75) since there were no receipts needed and you could just expense the full per diem.

When I was at Gamesa (not a consulting firm) we were held to $10 for breakfast, $25 for lunch, and $50 for dinner. Our CEO once remarked to me that $50 for dinner was a bit tight, since you'd easily get there with an appetizer, entree and glass of wine.
In Canada, E&Y also has a FF list and they get to fly in domestic J for flights over X hours (I forget). It's pretty cool. (I haven't worked there, this is from another FTer)
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 7:35 pm
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Originally Posted by superangrypenguin
In Canada, E&Y also has a FF list and they get to fly in domestic J for flights over X hours (I forget). It's pretty cool. (I haven't worked there, this is from another FTer)
It was flights of six hours or more when I was there.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 7:39 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1
The problem can often be traced back to having corporate travel managed by people who don't travel.
Amen! It's like when my former admin would send over a WN itinerary that was marginally cheaper than the better UA one and when I'd send back the UA one she'd respond, what's the difference? Just because that's what you'd pick doesn't mean it's what I want.

Originally Posted by superangrypenguin
In Canada, E&Y also has a FF list and they get to fly in domestic J for flights over X hours (I forget).
One of my friends works for an investment management/private equity firm. Their travel policy is anything over 3 hours is business class. That means Houston-NYC is business class. Crazy! But awesome if you're the employee.
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Old Mar 23, 2016 | 7:58 pm
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Originally Posted by Allan38103
Why put more restrictions on your employees than the IRS already does?
It all depends on where you sit. If your job is to process travel vouchers and someone comes up with a way to simplify the process such that 1 person can do what 2 people used to do, that is a bad thing. OTOH, if you are the CFO, it is a good thing.

Additionally, there are people who are convinced that their employees are all thieves. So, they require receipts for everything rather than firing the thieves. In the end, they pay more to prevent the thieves from stealing, they fail at the task and the honest folks are unhappy and leave. That proves the employer right. Now, all his employees are thieves.
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