"Invasion" by Arab Gulf Airlines.
Nov 7, 2014, 9:53 am
#61
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Ownership does not imply subsidy.
Nov 7, 2014, 10:02 am
#62
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Here's my take on the advantages of the Arab-Based Airlines:
- While most of their management, pilots and a large portion of their flight attendants are British and American, they have what many would consider a major unfair advantage. That is, NO INCOME TAX. While their pay rates compare, their effective compensation is much higher than competitors in the UK and the US.
- While most of their management, pilots and a large portion of their flight attendants are British and American, they have what many would consider a major unfair advantage. That is, NO INCOME TAX. While their pay rates compare, their effective compensation is much higher than competitors in the UK and the US.
You want to create a "fair" playing field? Get rid of income taxes.
Nov 7, 2014, 10:49 am
#63
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Nov 7, 2014, 10:54 am
#64
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But stories of a flight attendant who stays the night at a friends apartment, gets reported by the apartment blocks security guard - gets summons to HR - told she is sacked, and here is a ticket for the first flight out, goes to the atm and finds all her funds frozen, then when in transit from Australia to Europe a year later - denied entry into DOHA to visit friends - as she is not a suitable person to be a visitor.
By all means fire the person if they do not follow the rules, but freezing her assetts not really acceptable
Nov 7, 2014, 10:58 am
#65
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Last I checked, I pay people in service jobs to serve me which makes them a servant by definition.
I understand if you are adding your own connotations to the word and that might offend you, but they literally are servants. Just like billions of others. The USA employs a tens of millions of servants...
Nov 7, 2014, 11:00 am
#66
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SQ tickets are by no means cheap, and most certainly more expensive then ME airlines.
But lots of people are still willing to pay the higher price, cause of service, food, hardware, etc.
I think the biggest worry for American airlines, is that they will need to up their services (meaning increase cost) to compete.
But lots of people are still willing to pay the higher price, cause of service, food, hardware, etc.
I think the biggest worry for American airlines, is that they will need to up their services (meaning increase cost) to compete.
Nov 7, 2014, 11:30 am
#67
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Nov 7, 2014, 11:36 am
#69
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I will put up with lousy service if it gets me into the lounges and O/Z class awards.
Nov 7, 2014, 12:36 pm
#70
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So what? There are plenty of govt owned airlines that keep losing money, and have to be kept afloat with govt money.
Last I checked, the Gulf Airlines make plenty of profit for their owners.
As for labour practices, they can only strive to be as good to their employees as the high paying US regional carriers are
Last I checked, the Gulf Airlines make plenty of profit for their owners.
As for labour practices, they can only strive to be as good to their employees as the high paying US regional carriers are
At the end of your training there will a graduation party, where your class will be attending. This party will be visited by the CEO, Akbar Al-Bakar (aka the Poisoned Dwarf). The female crew members will be told, by the CEO, they are not allowed to fraternize with any QR employee, and that doing so will result in immediate termination of you and the person you're seeing.
You will be living in company supplied accommodation, where you will share an apartment with another crew member. The company will have a spare key to your room, and can at any time conduct a search for contraband (alcohol) or 'illegal' visitors. Your comings and goings will be electronically recorded, and there are curfews in place - home at 0300 latest on your days off, 12 hours before duty if working. Breach of the curfew, or having guests of the opposite sex, or any alcohol without a license (we'll get back to that) will see you fired on the spot.
You will be transported to and from work. Failure to show up for the bus, even if you make it to the airport on time under own steam, will result in immediate termination.
If you drink the wrong bottle of water onboard the aircraft, i.e. Evian instead of Rayaan, you'll be fired.
If a passenger who's mildly well connected to the CEO (and, let's face, due to the minute size of Qatari nationals everybody knows everybody) and don't quite fancy your service, he'll send a text message to AAB and you'll be fired.
Your salary will be deposited in bank of the company's choosing. The company can, at any time it so wishes, request a statement of your accounts. If there are any 'illegal' activities, such as having used your card during curfew hours or purchase of alcohol without a license, you'll be fired.
Oh, yeah, that license. Well, in order to buy alcohol in Qatar you need a license. It costs around 1500 QAR. There is only one shop in the whole country selling alcohol, and it is owned by Qatar Airways. All purchases are recorded, and if you're a QR employee the records are passed on to QR. If the company thinks you've been having one too many, you'll be fired.
When you are dismissed, of even if you resign yourself, first thing that happens is that all your accounts will be frozen. That's SOP in QR and, yes, the company has the power to order the bank to freeze your accounts.
You are not allowed to marry without permission from the company. And the list of absurdities goes on and on and on. QR is, for all intents and purposes, a one-man-show. Nothing happens without the approval of Al-Bakar, and everybody's living with the constant threat of dismissal, often utterly groundless. If you're management it's not much better, and as a result QR has a huge problem retaining talent. This echoes through the entire organisation, which consists of relatively new leaders with no real powers, and an almighty CEO with the temper of a female alligator in heat.
Now I appreciate that to most of you, all of the above may sound improbable, But I can assure you, all of the examples given above are from real life. What's more, they are far from single events and - if rumors are to believed - not even close to the worst cases.
Fly QR at your leisure. I won't.
Last edited by Sheikh Yerbooty; Nov 7, 2014 at 12:45 pm
Nov 7, 2014, 1:00 pm
#72
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First off, out of the ME3 only EK is returning a profit. On the other hand, EK have been profitable for the vast majority of it's existence, and was one of the few things that kept Dubai afloat in 2008/09. Another interesting fact: The only part of QR which is turning a profit is their food & beverage division. And the reason is simply: That division holds the monopoly on all import and distribution of alcohol and pork (!) in Qatar. The rest of QR is an enormous drain on the country's financial resources. But that's ok, Qatar can afford it many times over, and the purpose of QR is not necessarily to generate a profit.
Let me tell you a few things about life as a cabin crew member with QR.
At the end of your training there will a graduation party, where your class will be attending. This party will be visited by the CEO, Akbar Al-Bakar (aka the Poisoned Dwarf). The female crew members will be told, by the CEO, they are not allowed to fraternize with any QR employee, and that doing so will result in immediate termination of you and the person you're seeing.
You will be living in company supplied accommodation, where you will share an apartment with another crew member. The company will have a spare key to your room, and can at any time conduct a search for contraband (alcohol) or 'illegal' visitors. Your comings and goings will be electronically recorded, and there are curfews in place - home at 0300 latest on your days off, 12 hours before duty if working. Breach of the curfew, or having guests of the opposite sex, or any alcohol without a license (we'll get back to that) will see you fired on the spot.
You will be transported to and from work. Failure to show up for the bus, even if you make it to the airport on time under own steam, will result in immediate termination.
If you drink the wrong bottle of water onboard the aircraft, i.e. Evian instead of Rayaan, you'll be fired.
If a passenger who's mildly well connected to the CEO (and, let's face, due to the minute size of Qatari nationals everybody knows everybody) and don't quite fancy your service, he'll send a text message to AAB and you'll be fired.
Your salary will be deposited in bank of the company's choosing. The company can, at any time it so wishes, request a statement of your accounts. If there are any 'illegal' activities, such as having used your card during curfew hours or purchase of alcohol without a license, you'll be fired.
Oh, yeah, that license. Well, in order to buy alcohol in Qatar you need a license. It costs around 1500 QAR. There is only one shop in the whole country selling alcohol, and it is owned by Qatar Airways. All purchases are recorded, and if you're a QR employee the records are passed on to QR. If the company thinks you've been having one too many, you'll be fired.
When you are dismissed, of even if you resign yourself, first thing that happens is that all your accounts will be frozen. That's SOP in QR and, yes, the company has the power to order the bank to freeze your accounts.
You are not allowed to marry without permission from the company. And the list of absurdities goes on and on and on. QR is, for all intents and purposes, a one-man-show. Nothing happens without the approval of Al-Bakar, and everybody's living with the constant threat of dismissal, often utterly groundless. If you're management it's not much better, and as a result QR has a huge problem retaining talent. This echoes through the entire organisation, which consists of relatively new leaders with no real powers, and an almighty CEO with the temper of a female alligator in heat.
Now I appreciate that to most of you, all of the above may sound improbable, But I can assure you, all of the examples given above are from real life. What's more, they are far from single events and - if rumors are to believed - not even close to the worst cases.
Fly QR at your leisure. I won't.
Let me tell you a few things about life as a cabin crew member with QR.
At the end of your training there will a graduation party, where your class will be attending. This party will be visited by the CEO, Akbar Al-Bakar (aka the Poisoned Dwarf). The female crew members will be told, by the CEO, they are not allowed to fraternize with any QR employee, and that doing so will result in immediate termination of you and the person you're seeing.
You will be living in company supplied accommodation, where you will share an apartment with another crew member. The company will have a spare key to your room, and can at any time conduct a search for contraband (alcohol) or 'illegal' visitors. Your comings and goings will be electronically recorded, and there are curfews in place - home at 0300 latest on your days off, 12 hours before duty if working. Breach of the curfew, or having guests of the opposite sex, or any alcohol without a license (we'll get back to that) will see you fired on the spot.
You will be transported to and from work. Failure to show up for the bus, even if you make it to the airport on time under own steam, will result in immediate termination.
If you drink the wrong bottle of water onboard the aircraft, i.e. Evian instead of Rayaan, you'll be fired.
If a passenger who's mildly well connected to the CEO (and, let's face, due to the minute size of Qatari nationals everybody knows everybody) and don't quite fancy your service, he'll send a text message to AAB and you'll be fired.
Your salary will be deposited in bank of the company's choosing. The company can, at any time it so wishes, request a statement of your accounts. If there are any 'illegal' activities, such as having used your card during curfew hours or purchase of alcohol without a license, you'll be fired.
Oh, yeah, that license. Well, in order to buy alcohol in Qatar you need a license. It costs around 1500 QAR. There is only one shop in the whole country selling alcohol, and it is owned by Qatar Airways. All purchases are recorded, and if you're a QR employee the records are passed on to QR. If the company thinks you've been having one too many, you'll be fired.
When you are dismissed, of even if you resign yourself, first thing that happens is that all your accounts will be frozen. That's SOP in QR and, yes, the company has the power to order the bank to freeze your accounts.
You are not allowed to marry without permission from the company. And the list of absurdities goes on and on and on. QR is, for all intents and purposes, a one-man-show. Nothing happens without the approval of Al-Bakar, and everybody's living with the constant threat of dismissal, often utterly groundless. If you're management it's not much better, and as a result QR has a huge problem retaining talent. This echoes through the entire organisation, which consists of relatively new leaders with no real powers, and an almighty CEO with the temper of a female alligator in heat.
Now I appreciate that to most of you, all of the above may sound improbable, But I can assure you, all of the examples given above are from real life. What's more, they are far from single events and - if rumors are to believed - not even close to the worst cases.
Fly QR at your leisure. I won't.
So if you know all of these in advance of signing your contract what's the issue ? I certainly would not sign a contract unless I felt it acceptable
Nov 7, 2014, 1:01 pm
#73
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Asia and ME does not operate on the model as N America. How do you think they afford to run such a tight ship? I read some FTers post after the QR FA story came to light that they felt disgusted flying QR. I wonder how do they feel about EK? EY? or even CX? I don't see a difference in any of them. They are equally tough on their employees.
If I have a gripe with ME, it's about their preferential treatment for ME citizens vs immigrants who largely make of their work force across all sectors.
Nov 7, 2014, 1:08 pm
#74
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In its heyday, Pan Am had many similar rules regarding FAs and at its time it was widely regarded as the best airline the world had to offer.
Work conditions are something for the employer, employee, and regulating bodies to be concerned over. As the customer, the only thing I'm interested in is the product I receive for my money and quite honestly, I don't care whether the airline is profitable, unprofitable, government owned, or bankrupt. So long as the product is acceptable and the airline follows ICAO standards, I don't have any problem flying with them.
Further, US airlines have plenty of ability to compete even with airlines which are state-backed. The fact that they don't or won't is their own problem and I look forward to them facing more and more competition in all markets.
Nov 7, 2014, 1:31 pm
#75
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Exactly, and clearly some people do find it acceptable. This is all about relativity and perhaps some of these FAs are coming out of far worse conditions and see this as a huge upgrade.
In its heyday, Pan Am had many similar rules regarding FAs and at its time it was widely regarded as the best airline the world had to offer.
Work conditions are something for the employer, employee, and regulating bodies to be concerned over. As the customer, the only thing I'm interested in is the product I receive for my money and quite honestly, I don't care whether the airline is profitable, unprofitable, government owned, or bankrupt. So long as the product is acceptable and the airline follows ICAO standards, I don't have any problem flying with them.
Further, US airlines have plenty of ability to compete even with airlines which are state-backed. The fact that they don't or won't is their own problem and I look forward to them facing more and more competition in all markets.
In its heyday, Pan Am had many similar rules regarding FAs and at its time it was widely regarded as the best airline the world had to offer.
Work conditions are something for the employer, employee, and regulating bodies to be concerned over. As the customer, the only thing I'm interested in is the product I receive for my money and quite honestly, I don't care whether the airline is profitable, unprofitable, government owned, or bankrupt. So long as the product is acceptable and the airline follows ICAO standards, I don't have any problem flying with them.
Further, US airlines have plenty of ability to compete even with airlines which are state-backed. The fact that they don't or won't is their own problem and I look forward to them facing more and more competition in all markets.
LOL your right ! I was married to a Pan Am FA that became a Purser and they had a lot of restrictions. One is weight/weight/hair. They had to carry their "tools of the trade" back and forth with them, they use to have a "weigh in" at base ops, they all had a college degree, spoke at least one other language.
Yep forgot all about that.