I'll start off by admitting that I have learnt a LOT from my time spent visiting FlyerTalk. Whereas I thought I knew a lot about the minutiae of travel and air travel in particular, I never imagined I would learn as much as I have.

In particular, the topic of aircraft seats has fascinated me (as it apparently has a lot of people here). Having noted a lack of consistent vocabulary and descriptions around different types of seats, particularly in business- and first-class cabins, I decided to try to make sense of it and codify it to some extent.

To this end, I put together
The 2014 Guide to Lie-Flat Seats in First and Business Class

I also included a lot of photos of the different kinds of seats covered in the article.

If you find anything that isn't clear or needs further clarification, please send me a PM.

Below an image of our Pan Am first-class seats in our offices.

Lie flat seat have changed the market. Like the AA 321T business class seat.

In every generation (roughly), there have been innovations that are game-changers. The question is, what's next?

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You mean the seat nearly identical to the one UA started intalling on its fleet years ago??

In the short term, carriers will try to roll out lie flats as soon as possible. But in the long term, who knows? The three gulf carriers are probably are a good barometer for changes.

While maybe not as dramatic as a lie flat seat, I think the proliferation of wifi and in-seat power might qualify. As the new, faster wifi options come online, the productivity and entertainment options will be pretty revolutionary

I'm not so sure about that. They cater to a different market and they barely compete with other carriers. E.g. they compete with European carriers on EU-Asia, EU - OZ/NZ routes and EU-Middle East routes, and with US carriers mainly on US-Middle East routes. Not being directly in competition on TATL and TPAC routes, I don't think they make that big of a difference overall. While the gulf carriers have lavish int'l F cabins, US carriers have been moving away from that direction.

The true difference, IMO, is when a major US carrier introduces something new. Then everyone has to follow suit.

Residences and Apartments for everyone!

If history is anything to go by the major US players will follow suit after the European leaders

Ok I'll bite. Who were the first carriers to feature lie-flat seats?

I'm pretty sure that European carriers took the lead on personal IFE. (I remember flying TATL in the late 90's / early 2000's.)

OTOH, US airlines are the clear champions of baggage fees.

I don't exactly recall if it were BA or VS who introduced lie flat seats first, but that was 10+ years ago. Nowadays, middle eastern and asian airlines lead the way with SQ Suites with sliding doors or EY Residence with separate bedroom.
I'll grant that LH was very innovative on their 744 F seat/bed combo (which they should really kept it on 748 IMHO), though.

Goodness! FT is very Amero-centric, but this post really takes the biscuit. There are important air routes other than TPAC or TATL - indeed most of the world's biggest air routes don't touch North America.

You are wrong.

Let's check out some facts:

• LINK1
• LINK2
• the airline with the most pax carried is based in the US... as are the #2, #3 and #4 airlines

So you see, the US carriers simply carry more pax. The US is also, right now, the largest economy in the world, which explains why it is #1 in business air travel.

Assuming that most J pax are business travelers, and as I've shown above that US has the most business travelers, it makes sense for US-based airlines to set some trends related to J seats.

Other trends, such as personal IFE in Y, have been set by others (IIRC Swiss was one of the first airlines to feature that, and unfortunately that ended up causing a fire and crashing a plane in 1998 or 1999).


The question in the thread is not about who has the coolest J cabins or seats, but rather where this is headed. Gulf carriers may have lavish F cabins, but I really don't think that US carriers have any intention to follow suit, because they can't sell those seats. In fact, all US major carriers have cut back on int'l F cabins (and some have forgone them altogether). This trend is true for EU carriers as well.

All covered in the article linked in the first post in a brief history of lie-flat seats.

Correct. What is left to over now that even transcons have true lie-flats? In terms of soft product, plenty; in terms of hard product, well I'm curious what ideas the FlyerTalk brain trust might have.