Preserving one's right to exit the plane in one's turn
Jan 10, 2014, 3:37 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Formerly HPN, but then DCA and IAD for a while, and now back to HPN!
Programs: Honestly, I've been out of the travel game so long that I'm not even sure. Maybe Marriott Gold?
Posts: 10,677
Let me say first that I don't always jump up and try to rush off the plane. I remember my father telling me as a child, "There's no reason for us to rush to wait." So if I'm not blocking anyone I'll often just keep my seat and let those eager to get off the plane push and shove their way off.
But, there are times when I do wish to get off, and in those cases my view is that exit order should be based on one's row. In other words, the person from 20 rows back trying to push and shove their way forward doesn't have the right to prevent me from standing up and entering the aisle to exit.
My brother spied such a woman on a recent flight and decided he wasn't going to allow her to push her way in front of him and his wife. So he just pressed the little lever on the aisle armrest, which allowed it to raise up, and turned and put his knees in the aisle. Then when enough space cleared he motioned for his wife to exit the plane and he joined her. The pushy-shovey woman was fuming.
I have to say I kind of like the knees in the aisle technique.
But, there are times when I do wish to get off, and in those cases my view is that exit order should be based on one's row. In other words, the person from 20 rows back trying to push and shove their way forward doesn't have the right to prevent me from standing up and entering the aisle to exit.
My brother spied such a woman on a recent flight and decided he wasn't going to allow her to push her way in front of him and his wife. So he just pressed the little lever on the aisle armrest, which allowed it to raise up, and turned and put his knees in the aisle. Then when enough space cleared he motioned for his wife to exit the plane and he joined her. The pushy-shovey woman was fuming.
I have to say I kind of like the knees in the aisle technique.
Jan 10, 2014, 3:37 pm
#47
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the path to perdition
Programs: Delta, United
Posts: 4,786
For the sake of simplicity, let's take economy class only, in a 3-3 configuration.
As it stands now, after the plane pulls into the gate, about 1/2 to 2/3 of the people in aisles get up, and start pulling their bags down, putting on their jackets, etc.
As it stands, after row 1 has cleared, the rest of the plane has to wait for the person in 2A to scoot over to the aisle, open the bin (if not open), pull their bag down, and deplane.
That creates gaps every time a middle and window has to get their stuff out of the overhead.
If instead, we first let all those people already standing in the aisle deplane, the people in the middle or window seat in the rear, could stand up and start getting their bags ready as the line moved forward (ie. as the aisle cleared). Basically, as the line moved forward, you'd have people standing up to get their stuff. There would only be two short waits, as the line waited for the people in the middle and window in rows 1 & 2 each time you switched from aisle to middle, and then middle to window.
As it stands now, after the plane pulls into the gate, about 1/2 to 2/3 of the people in aisles get up, and start pulling their bags down, putting on their jackets, etc.
As it stands, after row 1 has cleared, the rest of the plane has to wait for the person in 2A to scoot over to the aisle, open the bin (if not open), pull their bag down, and deplane.
That creates gaps every time a middle and window has to get their stuff out of the overhead.
If instead, we first let all those people already standing in the aisle deplane, the people in the middle or window seat in the rear, could stand up and start getting their bags ready as the line moved forward (ie. as the aisle cleared). Basically, as the line moved forward, you'd have people standing up to get their stuff. There would only be two short waits, as the line waited for the people in the middle and window in rows 1 & 2 each time you switched from aisle to middle, and then middle to window.
That said I have no problem with others going by while someone in the window moves over. It is all about being polite and patient people. There will always be DYKWIAs. Kick them verbally.
Jan 10, 2014, 7:24 pm
#48
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Potomac Falls, VA
Programs: AA Plat 2MM, MR Gold, Avis Pref
Posts: 41,109
Since I'm an aisle guy (I'd rather be in an aisle toward the back than middle/window near the front), I'm often one of the first ones up. The Chime (when everyone gets up) goes off, I get up, grab my stuff and set it on my seat so that when that opening in front of me parts, I can bolt out of there so that the rest of you can get out too
My stuff is down and ready to roll
I remember a few times (usually females) when I'm standing in the aisle, roll aboard behind me just waiting as usual with the excuse me, I gotta catch my connecting flight.. now mind you i'm in the exit halfway back and the entire plane is standing in the aisle in front of me. Like she is going to get somewhere. I just tell her.. listen, I have a connection too.. just wait your turn. then you hear some mumbling and grumbling and thats the end of it.
a little off topic, just b/c I get up doesn't mean you (middle &/or window pax) can automatically slide in my seat. I'm getting my stuff out but putting it in my seat till its time to go.
ok back on topic
As a business traveler, a family traveler, and a solo traveler, I really don't care about your business meeting, your trip to Grandma's, or your mileage run. What I'm saying is I don't care why you "must" get out so fast, must walk so slow etc. Just don't 1. run me over and 2. if you are slow move to the side
As one poster said, I don't care if mom has a ton of stuff for the kids, if it kept them quiet on the plane, good for her and too bad for you.. matter of fact, too bad for you on everything, you seem to want everyone to capitulate to your every whim and desire. Fly private if that is what you want. If you can't afford it, too bad for you then.
I doubt your Pion (sic?) business meeting is that important anyway. if it was, you'd be on the corporate jet. If it is that important, fly in where you can make sure you have plenty of time to get to it including MX, weather, missed connects and people in your way
Yep, exactly, but I must say in reality, when the chime goes off, the aisle's fill anyway so I'm not sure how helpful it is to begin with.
bold my emphasis, unfortunately for your idea, everyone doesn't travel alone
I'm not deplaning (aisle) without my traveling partner just so that the guy in row 43C can get off before my kid or something in 7B gets off.. not gonna happen.. nor is it if I'm in 7B and you are 43C.. I'm not waiting.. its just not effective. What if the only bag I have is under my middle seat. I'm ready to go instantly.
My stuff is down and ready to roll
I remember a few times (usually females) when I'm standing in the aisle, roll aboard behind me just waiting as usual with the excuse me, I gotta catch my connecting flight.. now mind you i'm in the exit halfway back and the entire plane is standing in the aisle in front of me. Like she is going to get somewhere. I just tell her.. listen, I have a connection too.. just wait your turn. then you hear some mumbling and grumbling and thats the end of it.
a little off topic, just b/c I get up doesn't mean you (middle &/or window pax) can automatically slide in my seat. I'm getting my stuff out but putting it in my seat till its time to go.
ok back on topic
Wrong forum but appropriate posting.
I'm going there -
The worst are the families and elderly as don't mind a eager Betty as long as she is fast and in a rush.
Selfish parents with little kids and tons of overhead luggage block other passengers from getting off the plane and block the jetway waiting for their carriage. Are they so inconsiderate to realize a business traveler has someplace to go whereas little Suzy walks slow, talking, half asleep and I wish to hit her with my roller bag because I can't get around her but it would be considered rude on my part. WAIT UNTIL REST OF PSGS DEPLANE
Next, elderly/handicap - PLEASE SIT ON THE PLANE until everyone else is off! You are waiting for a wheelchair or using a cane which should automatically put you last deboarding the plane.
I'm going there -
The worst are the families and elderly as don't mind a eager Betty as long as she is fast and in a rush.
Selfish parents with little kids and tons of overhead luggage block other passengers from getting off the plane and block the jetway waiting for their carriage. Are they so inconsiderate to realize a business traveler has someplace to go whereas little Suzy walks slow, talking, half asleep and I wish to hit her with my roller bag because I can't get around her but it would be considered rude on my part. WAIT UNTIL REST OF PSGS DEPLANE
Next, elderly/handicap - PLEASE SIT ON THE PLANE until everyone else is off! You are waiting for a wheelchair or using a cane which should automatically put you last deboarding the plane.
As one poster said, I don't care if mom has a ton of stuff for the kids, if it kept them quiet on the plane, good for her and too bad for you.. matter of fact, too bad for you on everything, you seem to want everyone to capitulate to your every whim and desire. Fly private if that is what you want. If you can't afford it, too bad for you then.
I doubt your Pion (sic?) business meeting is that important anyway. if it was, you'd be on the corporate jet. If it is that important, fly in where you can make sure you have plenty of time to get to it including MX, weather, missed connects and people in your way
If you really have a tight connection you can enlist the help of the FA, who may allow you to move forward for the end of the flight. Doesn't always work but I've seen it done multiple times. Otherwise, just chill. And pack up your belongings before descent begins to avoid wasting everyone's time, including your own.
For the sake of simplicity, let's take economy class only, in a 3-3 configuration.
As it stands now, after the plane pulls into the gate, about 1/2 to 2/3 of the people in aisles get up, and start pulling their bags down, putting on their jackets, etc.
As it stands, after row 1 has cleared, the rest of the plane has to wait for the person in 2A to scoot over to the aisle, open the bin (if not open), pull their bag down, and deplane.
That creates gaps every time a middle and window has to get their stuff out of the overhead.
If instead, we first let all those people already standing in the aisle deplane, the people in the middle or window seat in the rear, could stand up and start getting their bags ready as the line moved forward (ie. as the aisle cleared). Basically, as the line moved forward, you'd have people standing up to get their stuff. There would only be two short waits, as the line waited for the people in the middle and window in rows 1 & 2 each time you switched from aisle to middle, and then middle to window.
I recognize there are all kinds of problems with this, including that people wouldn't wait, and would just try to follow the line out, blocking the aisle for the people in front of them. Also, families would need to get out together.
But in a perfect scenario, with everyone traveling alone, and following the rules, it seems the most efficient.
As it stands now, after the plane pulls into the gate, about 1/2 to 2/3 of the people in aisles get up, and start pulling their bags down, putting on their jackets, etc.
As it stands, after row 1 has cleared, the rest of the plane has to wait for the person in 2A to scoot over to the aisle, open the bin (if not open), pull their bag down, and deplane.
That creates gaps every time a middle and window has to get their stuff out of the overhead.
If instead, we first let all those people already standing in the aisle deplane, the people in the middle or window seat in the rear, could stand up and start getting their bags ready as the line moved forward (ie. as the aisle cleared). Basically, as the line moved forward, you'd have people standing up to get their stuff. There would only be two short waits, as the line waited for the people in the middle and window in rows 1 & 2 each time you switched from aisle to middle, and then middle to window.
I recognize there are all kinds of problems with this, including that people wouldn't wait, and would just try to follow the line out, blocking the aisle for the people in front of them. Also, families would need to get out together.
But in a perfect scenario, with everyone traveling alone, and following the rules, it seems the most efficient.
I'm not deplaning (aisle) without my traveling partner just so that the guy in row 43C can get off before my kid or something in 7B gets off.. not gonna happen.. nor is it if I'm in 7B and you are 43C.. I'm not waiting.. its just not effective. What if the only bag I have is under my middle seat. I'm ready to go instantly.
Jan 11, 2014, 5:06 am
#50
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 147
bold my emphasis, unfortunately for your idea, everyone doesn't travel alone
I'm not deplaning (aisle) without my traveling partner just so that the guy in row 43C can get off before my kid or something in 7B gets off.. not gonna happen.. nor is it if I'm in 7B and you are 43C.. I'm not waiting.. its just not effective. What if the only bag I have is under my middle seat. I'm ready to go instantly.
I'm not deplaning (aisle) without my traveling partner just so that the guy in row 43C can get off before my kid or something in 7B gets off.. not gonna happen.. nor is it if I'm in 7B and you are 43C.. I'm not waiting.. its just not effective. What if the only bag I have is under my middle seat. I'm ready to go instantly.
What I'm suggesting though, is actually a modified version of many airlines' boarding strategies, where instead of boarding from the back forward, they board window seats first, then middle, then aisle.
Jan 11, 2014, 6:06 am
#51
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
I have only tried to do this once because my flight landed late and I had to catch a connecting flight. I did explain to my fellow passengers why I wanted to get off quickly but not everyone was happy. So I gave up and missed my connection.
Jan 11, 2014, 7:26 am
#52
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
To the OP, there is no "Right to exit in ones turn", in fact there is no defined exit process on any of the airlines I've flown on. Attempting to "preserve" one's right by physically blocking a person has the potential to escalate in to violence and is as reprehensible a behavior as the original person pushing and shoving to get off.
Exactly. Why do the easily-affronted believe they can say and do anything to anyone wherever and whenever without risking further consequences?
Sticking your knees into the aisle is a great technique right up until someone plants his foot into the side of your knee or just leans over and elbows you in the face.
Yes, you can hobble to the FA or the police but the months spent getting your knee or jaw reconstructed won't be worth it. And if you are seen to have escalated a confrontation your assailant may not face any legal consequences and don't expect complete strangers to rally to your side as witnesses.
Is it really worth the bother?
Sticking your knees into the aisle is a great technique right up until someone plants his foot into the side of your knee or just leans over and elbows you in the face.
Yes, you can hobble to the FA or the police but the months spent getting your knee or jaw reconstructed won't be worth it. And if you are seen to have escalated a confrontation your assailant may not face any legal consequences and don't expect complete strangers to rally to your side as witnesses.
Is it really worth the bother?
I'm not going to act like a passive aggressive pylon. In fact, I'll roll out the red carpet. Last thing I want is a confrontation. Its not going to get me to where I'm going any faster.
Jan 11, 2014, 11:34 am
#53
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 817
What I find funny is people in a rush to _board_.
I once had some Bluetooth business class guy get really POed at me.
They were calling boarding groups, and I was in economy, so when they called my group I jumped up, since sometimes they run out of overhead bin space. (Not a huge deal, but irritating)
I was person 4 in line to show my boarding pass, which was nice. As I was approaching, this guy came sprinting up from the airport bar a bit down the hall, and tried to get cut front of me. I immediately formed a barrier with my carry on and said "There's a line". He looks at me, sneers and says in a really condescending tone "I'm group 1" and basically shoulder checks me.
I took martial arts when I was younger, and one of the things they teach you is how to hold your ground. So I just shifted my weight a bit with the effect that he got thrown backwards, almost going butt over teakettle since his little roller was crouched behind him.
Gave him the kind of glare that lets someone know that trying that again would be a Very Bad Idea as he got up, turned around, smiled gave the gate agent my boarding pass, thanked her, and got on the plane.
I felt a little bad - maybe I should have let him get on. But judging by the fact the FAs comped my drinks (domestic flight), I think I was probably in the right.
I once had some Bluetooth business class guy get really POed at me.
They were calling boarding groups, and I was in economy, so when they called my group I jumped up, since sometimes they run out of overhead bin space. (Not a huge deal, but irritating)
I was person 4 in line to show my boarding pass, which was nice. As I was approaching, this guy came sprinting up from the airport bar a bit down the hall, and tried to get cut front of me. I immediately formed a barrier with my carry on and said "There's a line". He looks at me, sneers and says in a really condescending tone "I'm group 1" and basically shoulder checks me.
I took martial arts when I was younger, and one of the things they teach you is how to hold your ground. So I just shifted my weight a bit with the effect that he got thrown backwards, almost going butt over teakettle since his little roller was crouched behind him.
Gave him the kind of glare that lets someone know that trying that again would be a Very Bad Idea as he got up, turned around, smiled gave the gate agent my boarding pass, thanked her, and got on the plane.
I felt a little bad - maybe I should have let him get on. But judging by the fact the FAs comped my drinks (domestic flight), I think I was probably in the right.
Jan 11, 2014, 12:25 pm
#54
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,271
Rebelyell, you might as well complain about people on the road during rush hour who constantly change lanes and actually slow traffic down as a result.
What you are looking at is typical behaviour when people are crowded in to a small space and 'personal space' limits have been cast aside. In those situations, all bets are off and courtesty and patience go out the window. Perfectly normal people behave in quite abnormal ways. You're as likely to find a saint trying to get off as fast as possible as a career criminal.
Look at people lined up on Boxing Day (plenty of clips on the news) to get into a store for the sales. Or did you see the clip of the guy starting to fight and push for a Playstation 4 when they first released? Do you think that person normally acts that way?
So you have to ask yourself if trying to affect their behaviour is really possible? The answer of course is that it is not. It is NORMAL behaviour when you crowd too many people into too small a space. Consider this, if the aisles were twice as wide where people could stand up to get their things out of the overhead at the same time as others could walk past them easily, what would happen? Take out half the seats, double the aisle size and I'm betting people would behave far more courteously than they do under existing conditions. But that of course would have other inplications. Higher fares; more air polution since they would have to fly twice as many flights; bigger airports that would take you longer to get through; etc.
There is no simple answer is there. You fly, you pay the price (in whatever way) of doing so. Flying is really not a pleasant experience in oh so many ways.
What you are looking at is typical behaviour when people are crowded in to a small space and 'personal space' limits have been cast aside. In those situations, all bets are off and courtesty and patience go out the window. Perfectly normal people behave in quite abnormal ways. You're as likely to find a saint trying to get off as fast as possible as a career criminal.
Look at people lined up on Boxing Day (plenty of clips on the news) to get into a store for the sales. Or did you see the clip of the guy starting to fight and push for a Playstation 4 when they first released? Do you think that person normally acts that way?
So you have to ask yourself if trying to affect their behaviour is really possible? The answer of course is that it is not. It is NORMAL behaviour when you crowd too many people into too small a space. Consider this, if the aisles were twice as wide where people could stand up to get their things out of the overhead at the same time as others could walk past them easily, what would happen? Take out half the seats, double the aisle size and I'm betting people would behave far more courteously than they do under existing conditions. But that of course would have other inplications. Higher fares; more air polution since they would have to fly twice as many flights; bigger airports that would take you longer to get through; etc.
There is no simple answer is there. You fly, you pay the price (in whatever way) of doing so. Flying is really not a pleasant experience in oh so many ways.
Jan 11, 2014, 2:14 pm
#56
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 10 months VLC, 2 months everywhere else
Programs: *A
Posts: 3,770
Waiting to deplane CMH-PHL 2.5 hours late arrival. Business man with his buddy in row 18 rush to get off, he says rather loudly "Hurry up and get past all these slow mother f%^*(&^!"
Saw him 15 minutes later begging to get on his flight to Europe that he just missed. "But I'm in ENVOY CLASS, you have to let me on." Ended up getting rerouted middle seat in economy through MAD.
LOL
Saw him 15 minutes later begging to get on his flight to Europe that he just missed. "But I'm in ENVOY CLASS, you have to let me on." Ended up getting rerouted middle seat in economy through MAD.
LOL
Jan 12, 2014, 6:41 am
#57
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NYC/Northern NJ
Programs: 1K - UAL, Platinum DL, Marriott, Hilton, SPG
Posts: 1,815
Talk about feeling entitled!You have no right to assume you know why other people might be in a rush. How do you know they don't have tight connections, appointments, meetings, or urgent medical issues?
You don't. You don't know diddly about them other than they fall in a category you clearly don't like.
I'd venture to guess they probably don't much like the pushy "businessman" who shoves by and gives them dirty looks for daring to fly.
Amazing, folks seem to want to berate someone who wishes to exit efficiently. I don't think it is about who feels they have a right but a solo traveler with a briefcase or college student who can exit within 45 secs shouldn't be held up 5 mins due to senior citizen Edith (requiring help with her heavy carryon) or grandson Johnny who stops every 5 ft to ask questions.
I also, move to right lane when climbing hills because I drive a 4 cyl and others have 6+.
Last edited by RooseveltL; Jan 12, 2014 at 6:58 am
Jan 12, 2014, 4:39 pm
#58
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
Waiting to deplane CMH-PHL 2.5 hours late arrival. Business man with his buddy in row 18 rush to get off, he says rather loudly "Hurry up and get past all these slow mother f%^*(&^!"
Saw him 15 minutes later begging to get on his flight to Europe that he just missed. "But I'm in ENVOY CLASS, you have to let me on." Ended up getting rerouted middle seat in economy through MAD.
LOL
Saw him 15 minutes later begging to get on his flight to Europe that he just missed. "But I'm in ENVOY CLASS, you have to let me on." Ended up getting rerouted middle seat in economy through MAD.
LOL
If a close connection, usually the other plane waits around for a bit. Funny, how things work out to those who don't deserve to have a plane wait around.
Jan 12, 2014, 4:53 pm
#59
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,714
How bout when you get on the plane toward the end of the line and having to put your carry on luggage in the overhead 10 rows behind you because the ones at the front are already full?
I had this situation on a recent flight and had the dilemma of whether to wait for the entire cabin to clear out to go against the flow to get my bag or to push and shove my way back to get my bag as soon as the seat belt sign went off.
I chose to push and shove my way back, knowing that the reason I had to do it was because those seated toward the back of the plane were responsible for me having to do it by putting their bags up front.
I had this situation on a recent flight and had the dilemma of whether to wait for the entire cabin to clear out to go against the flow to get my bag or to push and shove my way back to get my bag as soon as the seat belt sign went off.
I chose to push and shove my way back, knowing that the reason I had to do it was because those seated toward the back of the plane were responsible for me having to do it by putting their bags up front.
Not necessarily.
It could also be that each pax in the rows around you brought an allowable bag. The truth is, if everyone did that there is not enough room for everyone's bags.
After all, you stowed your bag back several rows from your seat. Did you look first to make sure that there were no empty seats near that open space? What if someone sitting right there boarded after you and had to gate check his/her bag because you didn't stow your bag over your row (which is not his/her fault)?
Jan 13, 2014, 5:03 am
#60
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Potomac Falls, VA
Programs: AA Plat 2MM, MR Gold, Avis Pref
Posts: 41,109
Yeah, I think the biggest issue is groups will not just want, but need to deplane together (if families). So, they either give up their place in the queue, or the system doesn't work.
What I'm suggesting though, is actually a modified version of many airlines' boarding strategies, where instead of boarding from the back forward, they board window seats first, then middle, then aisle.
What I'm suggesting though, is actually a modified version of many airlines' boarding strategies, where instead of boarding from the back forward, they board window seats first, then middle, then aisle.
a parent is not going to let little Jimmy board in his window seat first while the parent waits at the gate for the middle seats to board or board first and let little Jimmy wait out in the gate area till his section boards.. just isn't going to happen