gooselee

I also prefer the all-in pricing model when possible, but many of our clients demand itemization and passthrough expenses for a variety of reasons (sometimes including the all time favorite: that's how they've always done it).

I wonder what LaserSailor's response would be if he/she were facing a particularly big sale, but the prospect was adamant about itemizing the expenses for whatever reason. Would you seriously turn down a seven- or eight-figure contract because the client's corporate procurement policies don't jive with your own (and completely understandable) pricing philosophy? That seems like a particularly high cost just to make a point.

ft101

To ensure compliance with legal requirements.

FatnLoud

I mostly do my engagements on a fixed fee basis (one cost for one deliverable. My terms and conditions state that no supporting information will be available for review or audit by the client.

I have worked for a number of FTSE 100 clients and none have blinked an eye and none have even questioned this.

I cannot think what irregularity would force an audit.

Typically an audit would only take place where there was a pass through of costs, otherwise they have nothing to audit against!

AllieKat

Maybe I'm weird, but in general, I WISH I had nearly $30/day for food. Granted, some countries like Switzerland that'll be a stretch when travelling but still doable.

Also, this obviously has to be for PERSONAL food, not entertaining clients (that would be very penny-wise and pound-foolish). Treat them to the best.

As for you - let's think of what a $30 food budget in a day could get you:

Breakfast - Venti Latte and a breakfast sandwich at Starbucks (total about $9)
Lunch - Panda Express 2-entr�e plate and a fizzy drink (total about $9)
Dinner - A meal at a local diner (use the remaining $12)

Granted, that's not feasible everywhere, but that's a nice day of food when travelling in a American city for your own filling-upness.

stifle

In most of the places where I would travel for business, none of those options would be viable, except perhaps Starbucks. And I hate Starbucks.

gooselee

If I ate Panda Express for lunch every day I was on the road, I'd probably need more sick days...

sethb

Travel costs are $0. The project costs $X, period.

If the competitor is adding travel costs, they need to know how much that is; what difference does it make if I charge $50,000 plus $50,000 travel, or $90,000 plus $10,000 travel? You're paying me $100,000 either way. If my competitor is asking $75,000 plus $30,000 travel, why should my breakdown matter?

They aren't paying me "hours" either. They're paying me money, and I'm giving them results.

What legal requirements are there, that they can't pay me $X for results Y? You want a breakdown? OK, $1 costs, $1 travel, $X-2 profit. Happy now?

Badenoch

If given a $30 per diem I would buy food in grocery stores and make due.

I'd also be looking for a new employer. Skinflint companies that nickel and dime to the point of a $30 per diem get what they deserve which is disloyal employees that would sell them out in a heartbeat.

YuropFlyer

Yes, 30$ is just too low when you're working abroad in a project. Sure, in China I could manage to eat 3 times a day decently on 30$/200 RMB, but even there, it would mean I couldn't just order whatever (regular, not crazy) meal I want, because I might have to always double check my expenses. So, no, unless a company provides half-useful per diem (or per meal) expenses, they're going to lose employees over that, be assured of this.

Saving on short-time balance is never a good idea. Period.

Emma1420

I typically don't have time to leave the hotel to look for a Panda Express equivalent. And even if I did I don't want to live off of fast food while I'm on the road. Nine times out of ten I'm eating in the hotel restaurant, and $30 doesn't cover three meals a day plus a coke or coffee during the day.

RichMSN

Absolutely. When I scope out a project, I base it on deliverables. I estimate the number of days it will take to complete the project best I can, but if we get the work done a bit quicker, the client doesn't get a refund. Likewise, if it takes a bit longer than I expected, we're not asking for more money.

If I can help it at all, I'm not quoting days or hours or anything like that.

KoKoBuddy

$30 is kind of pushing it for food per day. $40 is more realistic and $50 for high cost cities like NYC, San Francisco.

But if I were given a $30 max, I could probably make it work, without having to resort to fast food. That works to $5 breakfast, $10 lunch and $15 dinner which is doable. Not eating at the finest restaurant in town, but also not eating off Jack in The Box Value Menu either.

roberino

My uncle did a one off job for a customer in a very Muslim country (his company wouldn't support the job but agreed to him doing it freelance) and they insisted on terms that forbade the spending of "their" money on alcohol and on their right to review the expenses even though it was on a per diem basis. Alcohol wasn't available in that country anyway, but when they reviewed the expenses they asked about every item on the receipt for breakfast at the airport. As someone else on here said, are you going to turn down a lucrative contract just because the customer wants to ensure their money is being spent in a manner which fits with their ethical code?

As for irregularity, what if there is a suggestion that you have engaged in some sort of wrongdoing? I've known companies submit to an audit voluntarily rather than have the customer raise a complaint with the authorities.

pragakhan

What the heck? I get $50 a day, don't eat breakfast and still go over... and I have gone wayyy over...

What is a diner meal for $12 besides taking the next day off?

I hate sick days at hotels LOL

RandomNobody

My employer follows the Federal GSA schedules for M&IE (per diem). The US Government pretty well optimized the per-city costs for "decent but not extravagant" lodging and per-diem allowances. Easy to justify to whoever is paying the bill. Lodging is actual costs up to the limit, M&IE is flat rate (unless meals were provided by the conference or client, for example).

And it's publicly available information, with a nice website to look up those tables. http://www.gsa.gov/portal/category/104711

I usually make money on the deal, even with a few splurge meals per trip.