Originally Posted by pinniped (Post 18556756)

Well, something would have to give somewhere if the culture of tipping changed. (Sort of a moot point because the gradual change is in the direction of higher tips.) It'd be a mix of both: attempting to charge higher prices to customers and attempting to pay the staff just enough to not lose the workforce needed to operate the restaurant. He'd be jacking with both the labor demand curve and the demand curve for his own product. (He'd find out fast which one was more elastic!)

At this point, I've resigned myself to the fact that the tip is so culturally ingrained that it's effectively embedded into both of these demand curves. The waiter at a star-rated restaurant got there in theory because he's the best at his craft. The kid at Applebee's probably doesn't have the same abilities, but may later acquire them. If I tip them both 15-20% when I receive normal service, then I figure I'm participating in this particular economy in the way that's expected of me.

Some might say "Who cares if the waiter at Charlie Trotter's is any better than the one at Applebee's? I'm just there for the food." I do care...and I think most people who eat at an outstanding restaurant do. Enough people care that those are probably difficult jobs to get, typically staffed by very good professional waiters, and hopefully they're paid well for it.

If I get awful service, that's another story. I've left 0-10%, spoken with the manager, and even had cases where I didn't pay for a meal. This is another category aside from our general culture of tipping...gets into what your general reaction to getting a bad or broken product of any kind is.

Originally Posted by edaimler (Post 18603993)

I am going to guess that such smugness comes from someone who 1)has not worked in a service profession dependent upon tips (e.g., as a waiter); and 2) does not, and probably has not, lived in NYC or any other 'global city'.

Originally Posted by orthar (Post 18568232)

So one cannot disagree with the 'reasoning' behind a custom, he must have an ulterior motive?
People on the other side can just as easily say that you tip to feel good about yourself (which BTW I suspect is the reason some Americans overseas tip even when told not to).
If someone will eat a 500$ meal, it's pretty ridiculous to call him cheap. Likewise, if I'll order a 200$ bottle of wine instead of a 100$ one and not tip twice as much, it's not because I'm cheap, it's because it's silly.

Originally Posted by orthar (Post 18604026)

I am going to guess that such self-righteousness comes from someone who thinks that the only 'global cities' in the world are located in the US?
And this is coming from someone who has lived in NYC for many years. Just because he can afford to pay a 20% tip on a 500$ meal doesn't mean it makes sense, or that he should.

Originally Posted by edaimler (Post 18604065)

"Global Cities" means just that: Global. The point is that exposure to these places gives you awareness that tipping customs vary radically. Customs within US cities seem to vary less.

It is difficult to argue that 20% inherently 'makes sense'. I am just saying that it is part of the custom to tip (in US restaurants). I personally admire those that tip and down based on performance, but there is a starting point around which those equations should be based and in the US, that seems to me to be 15-18% at restaurants.

Originally Posted by orthar (Post 18604026)

I am going to guess that such self-righteousness comes from someone who thinks that the only 'global cities' in the world are located in the US?

Originally Posted by User Name (Post 18604134)

You have 5 posts to your name. Did you join FT just to take part in arguments or are you intending to contribute something of value to the community?

Originally Posted by BeatCal (Post 18609335)

The best tipping I ever saw was a friend who left a stack of bills on the table. Every time he had to ask for something, he removed one of the bills. It soon became obvious that that was the tip and service improved.

Originally Posted by HazeCraze (Post 18610114)

Lol Didn't that happen in the show, 3rd Rock from the Sun?

Originally Posted by edaimler (Post 18606688)

OH! Are you saying that number of posts defines a _social norm_ in a specific community around which participants would be well-served to be basing their behavior? ;)

Originally Posted by djs (Post 18611941)

Make that six (sevenif you choose to respond). Oh, and though I always wonder why someone may have a low post-count, I think the bigger thing is the time on a site and 3 years on the site has to count for something too.

Originally Posted by BadgerBoi (Post 18601715)

Why on earth do people insist on tipping in places where it's just not done? Two years from now there will be threads in FT from people relating their experiences in Kiev being chased down the street by a waiter who is angry that he was only tipped a lousy 10%...