Throw in all the smilies you like: I've run this route half a dozen times over the past year and, even flying in J, I'm just about dead when I arrive at the hotel.

As for flying out a day earlier, that implies an extra day's worth of my time to be billed to the client, plus hotel, meals, and incidentals. The difference between a K fare and a Z fare shrinks pretty rapidly when that's taken into account.

Look, I'd never insist on flying J for a YYC-YEG flight (especially as it's only available once a day) or for a YYC-IAH flight, or, well, any North American destination. But TATL/TPAC/TIND? You'd better believe that I expect to fly in J. No company I've ever worked for has even attempted to suggest otherwise. And no client has ever balked at coughing up for J on TATL/TPAC/TIND flights.

Cisco may not be stuggling to attact talent, but in the industry I work in, jobs are going begging. I get calls from recruiters looking to see if I'd consider switching jobs at least twice a week.

But hey, sneer all you like. Get that policy implemented where you work. And best of luck in attracting senior talent when it becomes bruited about that their comfort and safety aren't of any concern to you.

TB-ES

I think you are at fault for making blanket generalizations. Sure, if all else is equal between two candidates for a traveling post, the one who is happy traveling in Y might bet selected. But this criteria is way, way down the list of things that companies are looking for in talented staff. Experience, skills, execution ability, and if you are in sales, a good Rolodex, all count for way more than travel preferences. These reasons are part of why the business class cabins are always pretty full when I fly long haul. And note that I fly Euro airlines mostly which don't upgrade their elites or give out coupons. Most everyone in the cabin paid to be there.

I have had several jobs at companies that had economy-only policies. However the CEO permitted me to travel in business class on long haul flights because he knows what it is like to do heavy intercontinental travel. And because I was executing well. The CFO would often bring my expense reports to the CEO to complain and the CEO pointed him to the income I generated for the company and then told him to shut up and pay me.

And Cisco loses as much talented staff as they gain. Not entirely due to travel, but that is part of it for some. In fact they have lost of lot of their top people recently.

I just boarded CDG-ATL with AF. Biz was oversold so they bumped me up to F. And there is a fully loaded DL flight on the same route, same time. Just a small data point.

At my company the policy/arrangment varies by position and type of contract you work on,
For me, the policy is: if the customer is unwilling to pay for business class, the company will pay for a ticket upgrade if the flight is under 3.5 hours if you request it and they approve you of course. Which is not always the case.

For my particular role and function all contracts that I take on stipulate that if the job site is more than 3.5 hours total flying time from my base, it is the employer's responsibility to purchase travel tickets in either premium economy or business class.
Usually they'll buy me Y+ when available instead of J class when flying within North America. Which I'm fine with.
When posted on jobs in Europe or Asia and occasionally Africa they always pay for business.
No use in me being exausted and out of wack on arrival

Nice. Enjoy it. In october i got delayed and missed my AC CDG-YUL, they rebooked me on AF as everything else was full, I can't say it's my favorite F class but I did like it a lot.

I agree with the points above. We are dealing with people, not robots. Keep them happy and they will do their best for the job. The "always the cheapest" attitude usually gets the minimum effort from employees.

As much as we like to travel (as FTers), traveling for work is not always the fun and games. You leave family and friends behind, you miss various events (birthdays, weddings), you spend a lot of time on your own and it's tiring. The least an employer can do to overcome this is provide some incentive, and that is traveling in J. I see it as an investment in people, in keeping them happy and motivating them to perform.

Agreed. At the top end of the labour market, there's a global war for the most talented people in progress, and in the most profitable industries it can be pretty cutthroat. Premium travel is a useful and cheap (in the big scheme of things) tool to attract and retain top talent.

Thanks for the insinuation that I'm a hypocrite, but of course this is the policy where I work. We're expected to either take a personal day to arrive a day early, or hit the ground running after 20 hours of flying and layovers. We manage just fine. And we get about 200 applicants (from some of the top people in the field) for every position we advertise.

Again, I applaud you for being able and willing to do this. I know I wouldn't. Take a personal day so you don't arrive all knackered? I don't even know what to say. It sounds like a really crappy deal... but maybe I'm just too spoiled ;-)

Not really sure where the "hypocrite" insinuation took place - I never implied that you were flying J while you made subordinates fly Y - but I'll let that part of it go.

As I did outright state in one of my previous posts, I'm not insisting on riding J just to prove how important I am; YYC-YEG, YYC-YMM, YYC-IAH, YYC-MSY, YYC-YHZ are routes I've flown for the job in Y without the expectation of even Y+

I will say, though, that if you expect someone to fly (as per the OP's situation) 300K+ in international Y every year, please make that clear in the advertisement for the position, so that I can reduce your HR department's workload by 1/200th.

TB-ES

And to respond to the OP's original point:

Hell, yes, on any individual flight I take for personal reasons, even internationally, it's hard to justify J. For example, I'm flying YYC-YVR-HKG-SIN at the end of the month, and, while I'm hoping to upgrade at least the YVR-HKG portion of the flight, it's been booked in Y.

However, this is a personal flight; I have absolutely no demands on me when I arrive in SIN, and, being *G through AC, I get lounge access throughout the trip.

I simply wouldn't fly 300K+ per year for personal reasons unless I could afford J.

As the OP is required to fly this much, I don't see J being so much to ask for, but I don't set travel policies for companies that get 200+ applicants for every advertised position. I do, however, have over 15 years of experience in an industry that regularly expects travel to the field, and J for intercontinental travel is standard throughout the industry.

TB-ES

I'd compromise and get a Y,B,M (Delta) ticket that is eligible for upgrades. My company makes us purchase discounted economy tickets that I can't upgrade even with Diamond Medallion status and SWUs.

Your point doesn't stand. You think people flying 8+ hour flights regularly should just schedule a day of rest? Where does that come from? Mon - Fri, reducing billable hours? Oh, no, I guess my personal days like weekends or holidays. For people that travel 80-90%, you expect them to what, be too delirious to see their families or too busy flying on their personal time? People burn out. They won't last doing that for any length of time.

And, no, there are not hundreds or thousands of people waiting in line to take the kind of jobs that provide travel in J. J goes to effective sales reps that bring in big money. Speciality jobs where it's highly-qualified and a very specific skill set. And well, if you want to treat employees like cattle, they'll just fire you as their employer and go work somewhere else.

You don't think so, huh? What decade are you living in again?

I'm not sure if people are being willfully obtuse or actually misunderstanding my point. Every day I meet extremely smart, capable people who are perfectly functional after grueling trips in Y. Maybe J travel is considered the standard in certain industries, but it is by no means a "necessity." If all airlines did away with premium cabins tomorrow, sales reps and managers wouldn't cease to sell and manage. Things would get done pretty much like they always have, albeit less comfortably for those doing it.

Why do I have the feeling that you are under six feet tall? Meanwhile to your point, there are also people who thrive on five hours' sleep nightly. More power to them; however I'm one of the unfortunate ones who generally needs eight hours.