JPL9869

I am curious to hear how flying J is justified by other companies?

My company does have a policy that allows for flights over 7hrs to be booked in J. The catch for me is that I am with a newly established division that is barely profitable (They hired me to eliminate the "barely" ) and I am my own P/L.

Almost all of my trips are international and I expect to fly over 300k this year.

If an economy ticket is $1500-$2000 and a J ticket is $6000-$8000 where do you find the $4000-$6000 value in the J ticket?

If from a personal financial standpoint, I have a hard time justifying the purchase, how can I expect my company to?

swag

The question is, how effective will you be after a long flight in Y, compared to being more rested from traveling in J? If you'll be exhausted from Y, then that's the justification. But if you can rest/sleep just as well in Y, and save tens of thousands of dollars that way, then that's an easy way to boost the P/L.

particlemn

A well rested employee is much more valuable the following day to make the company money, compared with an employee whom stayed up all night in Y.
Second Travel is inconvienent for the employee, the company wants to show the employee they care about them, good employees are your biggest asset and you dont want to lose them so a little comfort can go a long way

roknroll

If I had a job that required me to travel internationally several times a month in economy, I'd probably start looking for a new job or have them get someone else to do the travel.

benzemalyonnais

At one point, my work was contemplating stopping paying for J and instead scheduling to allow no work the day of arrival instead of going right to a meeting. Those in charge of finances argued that an extra hotel night would cost 200$ and the flight in J costs 3+k more. Of course this didn't ever happen, because no one would ever take a job where they are forced to fly for 15 hours in Y on a regular basis.

Often1

F/J can be justified two ways.

1. Employee is well-rested and productive from the moment s/he hits the ground until the minute of departure. This includes everything from check-in to security to arrivals formalities, lounge for a shower, and the like. This is not simply a calculation as to what an employee makes per hour, but of the productive use of their time. Somebody who is asleep in their hotel when they could be at work means there are that many business tasks accomplished in the time the employee is out of the office.

2. As to employee comvenience, it's a competetive market. All things being equal, a regular long-haul traveler who is also high-performing will opt for the job with the better perks. That leaves your company with the non-performers. Having said this, the operative words are "all things being equal." Would somebody leave over F/J travel if it meant a $50K pay cut? Not likely. But, just like all perks, premium travel factors into the employee's decision-making process.

There is no cookie cutter answer to this question. At a cash-strapped startup, premium travel may not be doable even if it seems like a great idea. Cash flush mature company with a competitor breathing down your neck and it's time to shell out.

lwildernorva

To carry the sports analogy a bit further, the advantage may be considerable if the employee's job responsibilities include sales, negotiation, or public relations. In those situations, a tired employee may cost a company a sale, an important term in a contract that could be worth millions of dollars, or a bad impression that might damage a company's brand image. Like an athlete, many of these folks are expected to perform at their best at a specific time, perhaps within hours of clearing the airport. All of those considerations could make an economic case for business class over coach.

Having said that I'm sure in the last decade, this argument was applied to a much larger class of folks than originally intended and became more of a perk than a justified business expense.

SPatrick83

I'll often fly from MIA-EZE on Sunday night, 8.5 hours of flying then after landing, check-in to my hotel to shower then head into a Monday morning meeting. If my company didn't fly me in F or J I wouldn't physically be able to handle it and wouldn't be remotely productive. I'd also leave them and go work for another company that would pay for the J travel. It does mean a lot to me that they do spend the extra money for my comfort and I'm therefore more loyal to my company and more willing to go the extra mile or go out of my way to benefit the company.

emma69

In addition to the other points, some airlines give 1.5, 2 etc. times the miles for J v Y. You could contribute those miles to future business travel, if you need to 'add value' - either in the form of a ticket, or an upgrade from Y.

The most common reason I see for justification of J is [discounted J] is less than [full priced Y]. I don't think J really ever shows as cheaper than discounted Y, but it quite often shows less than full fare Y. I play along with a few folks who use such a justifcation and whilst I don't entirely agree with them, that is the fault of poorly worded travel policies IMO! The 'perks' J would give, that you can demonstrate a cash value for, include things like lounges (cost of meal, able to work online with free wifi, telephone calls etc), free luggage allowance for checked bags, and the 'soft perks', things like priority security access (saving time, meaning you can spend more time at the office / with clients), cost of hotel room overnight (ie you sleep on the plane), able to work in private on the plane (sensitive documents etc), arrive rested and able to work immediately, showers on arrival so you don't have to pay for day use of a hotel room when you arrive etc.

Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it. The company policy is 7+ hours and I would leave it as that. I don't see any reason you should be held to a different standard than everyone else.

brendog

While I don't fly internationally nearly as often as I used to (1x or 2x a month from EWR-MAN for 2+ years), I don't think J or F is really justifiable, unless a solid corporate contract with deep discounts is in place. While F or J is obviously a much better experience, I don't find myself appreciably more rested than after a flight in Y. YMMV, of course.

Would I like to fly J or F on long flights? Of course, and I upgrade whenever possible using miles, but seeing the hit on my P&L every quarter for Y travel (All of my employees travel almost weekly), I wouldn't even want to venture a guess as to how ugly it would be with J and F fares.

mecabq

This is not true at all. There are many employees in many industries who fly only Y, and are happy to do it.

I am not saying that I would be one of them; perhaps I am too coddled. I am sympathetic to the OP's point -- if it were your own money, or you were the owner of the company, could you justify it?

Sometimes you could. And it is not just about being productive the day after the flight. If one is a highly paid professional, then one's comfort is of value; anyone who flies internationally for a couple of days is probably doing something of high value to the company, so a few thousand extra dollars might be small relative to the value of the work being done.

pittpanther

This is my experience as well. Flying 15 hours is tough no matter how wide the seat is. Since neither J nor Y will let you lie down and sleep as if you were in bed, and since International coach is "usually" better than your typical MD80 coach, I would at least give Y a try for a few times, especially if I'm being judged on profitability.

Also I would try for as few trips as possible (sacrilege on FT, I know). But I think it's ridiculous to fly 15 hours each way to be at a client site for only 2 or 3 days. That kind of travel burden tells me you should be on site for at least a solid week, preferably 2 weeks.

emma69

That depends on the airline. Air Canada, for example, has fully flat beds in J, which allow me to be far more comfortable than bolt upright in Y.

vmsea

I would submit your budget with J travel budgeted..

BAM.. 50K savings on the bottom line right there. take that and cash in your bonus.

A lot of companies allow only Economy travel for everyone that's below a VP level. It's not uncommon.

dagaetch

Isn't there also the consideration about working in-flight? In J, you have power outlets and space to spread out, use your laptop, etc (usually). Not really possible in Y, unless you're a contortionist and your seatmate doesn't complain. And god forbid the person in front of you reclines the seat...there goes the laptop ability.