Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Feb 1, 2019, 10:13 am
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And speaking of France, how about a bonus quiz item?
In the fall of 1993, it was possible to fly directly with no change of plane from Lyon (LYS) to Ottawa (YOW). The service only operated twice a week and two intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops and the equipment.
Last edited by jlemon; Feb 1, 2019 at 4:06 pm Reason: answer update
Feb 1, 2019, 10:20 am
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The time line for our fifth freedom quiz is the fall of 1994 using the North American OAG which covers all scheduled passenger flights in the U.S., Canada and Mexico as well as virtually all of the islands in the Caribbean plus the Bahamas and Bermuda. Please note that airline flights for Central America and South America are not included in this OAG.
The following is a list of air carriers to include the respective equipment they operated on fifth freedom services in North America as well as the frequency of these flights. In every case, we are looking for the specific city pairs served. So here we go.....
3. COPA (CM) - Boeing 737-200 operating daily This flight was operated in the Caribbean
5. Lufthansa (LH) - Airbus A340 operating between one city and two different destinations, the first route served once a week and the second route served twice a week Antigua (ANU) - San Juan (SJU) twice a week and _________ - San Juan (SJU) once a week. Still looking for one more island destination here.
Feb 1, 2019, 10:29 am
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In the fall of 1993, it was possible to fly directly with no change of plane from Lyon (LYS) to Ottawa (YOW). The service only operated twice a week and two intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops and the equipment.
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
Any chance this could have been a French airline? If so, how about Air Liberte with a DC-10-30...
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
Any chance this could have been a French airline? If so, how about Air Liberte with a DC-10-30...
Feb 1, 2019, 10:32 am
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In the fall of 1993, it was possible to fly directly with no change of plane from Lyon (LYS) to Ottawa (YOW). The service only operated twice a week and two intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops and the equipment.
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
Any chance this could have been a French airline? If so, how about Air Liberte with a DC-10-30...
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
Any chance this could have been a French airline? If so, how about Air Liberte with a DC-10-30...
Feb 1, 2019, 11:14 am
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In the fall of 1993, it was possible to fly directly with no change of plane from Lyon (LYS) to Ottawa (YOW). The service only operated twice a week and two intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops and the equipment.
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
Any chance this could have been a French airline? If so, how about Air Liberte with a DC-10-30...
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
Any chance this could have been a French airline? If so, how about Air Liberte with a DC-10-30...
Feb 1, 2019, 11:15 am
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Feb 1, 2019, 12:20 pm
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[QUOTEIn the fall of 1993, it was possible to fly directly with no change of plane from Lyon (LYS) to Ottawa (YOW). The service only operated twice a week and two intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops and the equipment.
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
[/QUOTE]
The YOW terminus makes me think it has to be a Canadian airline as YOW just isn't and IIRC never was a port of call for any international airline from outside North America in the past few decades. The other airline in that era that ventured to Europe was Royal Airlines. Since the equipment wasn't an A310 or L-1011, it would have been a 757-200. How 'bout a route of LYS-PIK (Prestwick)-YMX-YOW?
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
[/QUOTE]
The YOW terminus makes me think it has to be a Canadian airline as YOW just isn't and IIRC never was a port of call for any international airline from outside North America in the past few decades. The other airline in that era that ventured to Europe was Royal Airlines. Since the equipment wasn't an A310 or L-1011, it would have been a 757-200. How 'bout a route of LYS-PIK (Prestwick)-YMX-YOW?
Feb 1, 2019, 1:22 pm
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[QUOTE[b]In the fall of 1993, it was possible to fly directly with no change of plane from Lyon (LYS) to Ottawa (YOW). The service only operated twice a week and two intermediate stops were made en route. Identify the airline, the two stops and the equipment.
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
The YOW terminus makes me think it has to be a Canadian airline as YOW just isn't and IIRC never was a port of call for any international airline from outside North America in the past few decades. The other airline in that era that ventured to Europe was Royal Airlines. Since the equipment wasn't an A310 or L-1011, it would have been a 757-200. How 'bout a route of LYS-PIK (Prestwick)-YMX-YOW?
The airline wasn't Air Transat, Nationair or Canada 3000, the first stop was not made in Bordeaux, Brussels or Nantes, and aircraft type wasn't an L1011, Super DC-8 or A310. The second stop was made at Montreal Mirabel (YMX).
The YOW terminus makes me think it has to be a Canadian airline as YOW just isn't and IIRC never was a port of call for any international airline from outside North America in the past few decades. The other airline in that era that ventured to Europe was Royal Airlines. Since the equipment wasn't an A310 or L-1011, it would have been a 757-200. How 'bout a route of LYS-PIK (Prestwick)-YMX-YOW?
And by the way, KLM was operating B767-300 service three days a week into Ottawa with a routing of AMS - YHZ - YOW at this same time (this service using a KL flight number was actually operated by Martinair (MP) for KLM); however, the flight we are looking for was not operated by KLM or Martinair.
Feb 1, 2019, 2:40 pm
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Well.....no. In fact, the air carrier in question wasn't based in France.
And here are two other hints: the first stop was made in the UK (but not in Scotland) and the equipment was smaller than a 747.
So how much snow did LCY receive?
And here are two other hints: the first stop was made in the UK (but not in Scotland) and the equipment was smaller than a 747.
So how much snow did LCY receive?
Feb 1, 2019, 3:55 pm
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AC 865: Lyon (LYS) 11:40 - 12:15 London Heathrow (LHR) 13:00 - 15:30 Montreal Mirabel (YMX) 16:15 (est.) - 16:44 Ottawa (YOW)
Freq: Wednesdays and Fridays only
Equip: 767
Service classes: F/J/Y
The YMX-YOW portion of the sched does not appear in the Worldwide OAG so I have provided an estimate of the departure time from YMX.
It also appears that Air Canada was permitted to carry local traffic from LYS to LHR as that schedule is listed in the Worldwide OAG and no traffic restrictions are noted.
I believe the aircraft was a B767-233ER with ten seats in First Class in a 2-2-1 configuration (the seats on the G side were the stand alone aisle-window first class seats), 30 seats in Executive Class (J) in a 2-2-2 configuration, and 123 seats in Hospitality Class (Y). This is the three class 767 seating configuration for Air Canada that shows up in the Aircraft Seat Chart section of the Worldwide OAG in the fall of 1993.
AC 865 also originated in other European cities depending on the day of the week. Once a week the flight originated in Nice operating a routing of NCE-LHR-YMX-YOW. And on another day of the week the flight originated in Duesseldorf operating a routing of DUS-LHR-YMX-YOW. In addition, once a week the flight continued on from Ottawa to Toronto (YYZ) with this particular flight originating at London Heathrow.
The LHR-YMX-YOW portion of the flight was operated on a daily basis and was the only direct service at this time from London to Ottawa.
However, British Airways, apparently not wanting to concede the battle for lucrative traffic from LHR to YOW, responded forcefully by the next year with their own special service from London Heathrow to Ottawa via a well timed connection at Montreal Mirabel with the LHR to YMX portion of the flight being operated with a B747-400.
Here's the BA sched for that connecting service in 1994....
BA 9795: Montreal Mirabel (YMX) 3:10p - 5:10p Ottawa (YOW)
Freq: Daily
Equip: BUS
Note: No local traffic permitted on BA 9795 YMX-YOW
Unfortunately, I do not believe three class service was offered on the bus from YMX to YOW.....
Feb 1, 2019, 5:23 pm
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IIRC, the BA bus ran for quite a few years, possibly into the 2000s though one would have thought there may have been a codeshare with CP by then. CP started YOW-LHR service at least by 1997 with 767-300ERs. That was one of my fastest eastbound TATL flights (< 5 hrs IIRC) due to strong tailwinds: The flight was held back leaving YOW so as not to arrive at LHR early to join the 1000 bomber raid.
I wonder if the AC flight just dropped off disembarking pax at YMX (and YOW on the days it flew on to YYZ) as there would likely not have been enough time for immigration clearance.
Had no idea KL (albeit through Martinair) serviced YOW and YHZ.
I wonder if the AC flight just dropped off disembarking pax at YMX (and YOW on the days it flew on to YYZ) as there would likely not have been enough time for immigration clearance.
Had no idea KL (albeit through Martinair) serviced YOW and YHZ.
Feb 1, 2019, 5:42 pm
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And as for the KLM service from Amsterdam to Ottawa, here's the sched from the Worldwide OAG....
KL 675: Amsterdam (AMS) 11:05 - 13:00 Halifax (YHZ) 14:00 (est.) - 14:45 Ottawa (YOW)
Freq: Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays only
Equip: 763
Service classes: C/Y
Note: "KL 675 OP WITH MP AIRCRAFT"
The Worldwide OAG does not list the YHZ-YOW leg so I have estimated the departure time from YHZ.
Last edited by jlemon; Feb 2, 2019 at 10:26 am
Feb 2, 2019, 10:23 am
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The time line for our fifth freedom quiz is the fall of 1994 using the North American OAG which covers all scheduled passenger flights in the U.S., Canada and Mexico as well as virtually all of the islands in the Caribbean plus the Bahamas and Bermuda. Please note that airline flights for Central America and South America are not included in this OAG.
The following is a list of air carriers to include the respective equipment they operated on fifth freedom services in North America as well as the frequency of these flights. In every case, we are looking for the specific city pairs served. So here we go.....
3. COPA (CM) - Boeing 737-200 operating daily This flight was operated in the Caribbean
5. Lufthansa (LH) - Airbus A340 operating between one city and two different destinations, the first route served once a week and the second route served twice a week ANSWERED
Last edited by jlemon; Feb 2, 2019 at 12:18 pm Reason: answer update