Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Sep 13, 2018, 12:00 am
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10. Another day, another meeting to attend in 1979. You are in Phoenix and the meeting is in Perth Amboy, New Jersey. You've found a daily direct flight from PHX to the closest airport to Perth Amboy. One stop will be made en route. Name the airline, the aircraft type, the stop and the airport you will arrive into.
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
West of Indy, eh? Well I reckon it wasn't either of the Chicago airports, so it's gotta be St. Louis or Kansas City. Let's go with MCI
P.S. Welcome back, WHBM. We've missed you and the depth of your quality contribution to this thread. ^
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
West of Indy, eh? Well I reckon it wasn't either of the Chicago airports, so it's gotta be St. Louis or Kansas City. Let's go with MCI
P.S. Welcome back, WHBM. We've missed you and the depth of your quality contribution to this thread. ^
Sep 13, 2018, 12:17 am
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Originally Posted by jrl767
7A: While YYZ would seem to be the logical connecting point to get to New York, it's too late to catch the 0715 from Pembroke; your still have your seat on the 1200, but the connecting flight to JFK is sold out (as are the AA flights to LaGuardia). Some further research, though, reveals a 1430 connection from a different city that will put you into New York at 1820. Identify the two airlines, the two aircraft types, and the connecting and destination airports.
Sorry - I don't mean to be obtuse here, but are you departing out of Pembroke to make that 1430 connection from "a different city" than assumedly YYZ or does "different city" mean you're starting your trip from an airport nearby but NOT Pembroke?
Sep 13, 2018, 2:06 am
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Here's a link to the May 28, 1967 PAISA timetable (hopefully)....
http://www.timetableimages.com/i-gj/ip6705i.jpg
And it appears the DC9 was indeed based in Caracas.
http://www.timetableimages.com/i-gj/ip6705i.jpg
And it appears the DC9 was indeed based in Caracas.
Seems that PAISA was not COPA of Panama under a different name, but was actually a joint venture between Viasa the main Venezuela airline and KLM. The latter had a longstanding management contract to effectively run Viasa, which was part owned by the two Venezuelan domestic carriers, LAV and Avensa. The latter was in turn long half owned by Pan Am. Now Avensa had been a pioneer purchaser of DC9s, to supplement their single old ex-Varig Caravelle (which carried on for many years afterwards), and it was one of these which was supplied to run the Paisa routes, apparently on just a couple of days a week. That DC9 purchase would of course have to be OK'd by Pan Am as half owner - who would have thought that Juan Trippe once signed off on an early DC9-10 order.
A web search for "PAISA DC9" turns up a photo https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...act=mrc&uact=8 of one in their name. In best Viasa style, it is the right hand side of the aircraft. Because they were the past masters at painting shared aircraft with a different airline colour scheme on each side, they did it on several KLM DC-8s and even DC-10s, the mainstream owner on the left side (which is the one passengers see most at boarding) and the shared company livery on the other side. I'm guessing that's the blue Avensa cheatline of the era, just with a different title, and that it said Avensa on the left. The aircraft remained fully operated by and registered to Avensa. KLM transferred two of their pioneer DC9-10s to Curacao to be run by ALM around the Caribbean and to Caracas etc, and will surely have done some shared maintenance etc on them for Avensa.
So there we go. A DC9-10, an obscure South Anmerican operator, KLM, Juan Trippe, and our old friend the Caravelle. All in one post !
Last edited by WHBM; Sep 13, 2018 at 2:30 am
Sep 13, 2018, 4:05 am
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as usual I could have been a bit more explicit, but the reality is that the answer is “both” — the 1430 departure is from neither Pembroke nor Toronto, and the connecting point is not YYZ
Sep 13, 2018, 8:24 am
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10. Another day, another meeting to attend in 1979. You are in Phoenix and the meeting is in Perth Amboy, New Jersey. You've found a daily direct flight from PHX to the closest airport to Perth Amboy. One stop will be made en route. Name the airline, the aircraft type, the stop and the airport you will arrive into.
ANSWERED: USAir operating a B727-200 daily from PHX to EWR via MSP
18. It's a cold winter day in 1994 in Philadelphia where you have been visiting with friends for the weekend. Then the phone rings. "Hey buddy," says a familiar voice, "I've found a 54 foot catamaran for sale that is excellent condition moored at a marina in Clearwater, Florida and we need to move on this pronto. I'm in Santa Barbara and can't get away right now....(what's her name, you think)......so can you fly down there Monday morning and take a look at it?" Well, why not....and it's just too darn chilly in Philly anyway. You quickly ascertain there's a nonstop flight from PHL departing at 7:30 am that will arrive into the closest airport to Clearwater at 10:00 am. You book a seat. What airline and aircraft type will you be flying on and what airport will you arrive into?
ANSWERED: American Trans Air (ATA) operating weekly L-1011 service PHL-PIE
Last edited by jlemon; Sep 15, 2018 at 2:50 pm Reason: answer updates
Sep 13, 2018, 8:26 am
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10. Another day, another meeting to attend in 1979. You are in Phoenix and the meeting is in Perth Amboy, New Jersey. You've found a daily direct flight from PHX to the closest airport to Perth Amboy. One stop will be made en route. Name the airline, the aircraft type, the stop and the airport you will arrive into.
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
West of Indy, eh? Well I reckon it wasn't either of the Chicago airports, so it's gotta be St. Louis or Kansas City. Let's go with MCI
P.S. Welcome back, WHBM. We've missed you and the depth of your quality contribution to this thread. ^
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
West of Indy, eh? Well I reckon it wasn't either of the Chicago airports, so it's gotta be St. Louis or Kansas City. Let's go with MCI
P.S. Welcome back, WHBM. We've missed you and the depth of your quality contribution to this thread. ^
Please guess again as I think you are almost there!
Sep 13, 2018, 8:33 am
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10. Another day, another meeting to attend in 1979. You are in Phoenix and the meeting is in Perth Amboy, New Jersey. You've found a daily direct flight from PHX to the closest airport to Perth Amboy. One stop will be made en route. Name the airline, the aircraft type, the stop and the airport you will arrive into.
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
Well I'm getting pretty good at whiffing of late. Let's go with Minneapolis (MSP)
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
Well I'm getting pretty good at whiffing of late. Let's go with Minneapolis (MSP)
Sep 13, 2018, 8:33 am
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Of course I had to try and get to the bottom of this one.
Seems that PAISA was not COPA of Panama under a different name, but was actually a joint venture between Viasa the main Venezuela airline and KLM. The latter had a longstanding management contract to effectively run Viasa, which was part owned by the two Venezuelan domestic carriers, LAV and Avensa. The latter was in turn long half owned by Pan Am. Now Avensa had been a pioneer purchaser of DC9s, to supplement their single old ex-Varig Caravelle (which carried on for many years afterwards), and it was one of these which was supplied to run the Paisa routes, apparently on just a couple of days a week. That DC9 purchase would of course have to be OK'd by Pan Am as half owner - who would have thought that Juan Trippe once signed off on an early DC9-10 order.
A web search for "PAISA DC9" turns up a photo https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...act=mrc&uact=8 of one in their name. In best Viasa style, it is the right hand side of the aircraft. Because they were the past masters at painting shared aircraft with a different airline colour scheme on each side, they did it on several KLM DC-8s and even DC-10s, the mainstream owner on the left side (which is the one passengers see most at boarding) and the shared company livery on the other side. I'm guessing that's the blue Avensa cheatline of the era, just with a different title, and that it said Avensa on the left. The aircraft remained fully operated by and registered to Avensa. KLM transferred two of their pioneer DC9-10s to Curacao to be run by ALM around the Caribbean and to Caracas etc, and will surely have done some shared maintenance etc on them for Avensa.
So there we go. A DC9-10, an obscure South Anmerican operator, KLM, Juan Trippe, and our old friend the Caravelle. All in one post !
Seems that PAISA was not COPA of Panama under a different name, but was actually a joint venture between Viasa the main Venezuela airline and KLM. The latter had a longstanding management contract to effectively run Viasa, which was part owned by the two Venezuelan domestic carriers, LAV and Avensa. The latter was in turn long half owned by Pan Am. Now Avensa had been a pioneer purchaser of DC9s, to supplement their single old ex-Varig Caravelle (which carried on for many years afterwards), and it was one of these which was supplied to run the Paisa routes, apparently on just a couple of days a week. That DC9 purchase would of course have to be OK'd by Pan Am as half owner - who would have thought that Juan Trippe once signed off on an early DC9-10 order.
A web search for "PAISA DC9" turns up a photo https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgu...act=mrc&uact=8 of one in their name. In best Viasa style, it is the right hand side of the aircraft. Because they were the past masters at painting shared aircraft with a different airline colour scheme on each side, they did it on several KLM DC-8s and even DC-10s, the mainstream owner on the left side (which is the one passengers see most at boarding) and the shared company livery on the other side. I'm guessing that's the blue Avensa cheatline of the era, just with a different title, and that it said Avensa on the left. The aircraft remained fully operated by and registered to Avensa. KLM transferred two of their pioneer DC9-10s to Curacao to be run by ALM around the Caribbean and to Caracas etc, and will surely have done some shared maintenance etc on them for Avensa.
So there we go. A DC9-10, an obscure South Anmerican operator, KLM, Juan Trippe, and our old friend the Caravelle. All in one post !
Sep 13, 2018, 8:44 am
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10. Another day, another meeting to attend in 1979. You are in Phoenix and the meeting is in Perth Amboy, New Jersey. You've found a daily direct flight from PHX to the closest airport to Perth Amboy. One stop will be made en route. Name the airline, the aircraft type, the stop and the airport you will arrive into.
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
Well I'm getting pretty good at whiffing of late. Let's go with Minneapolis (MSP)
The airline was USAir operating a B727-200 from PHX to EWR. Still looking for the intermediate stop which wasn't PIT, IND, CLE or CMH. The stop in question was located west of these airports.
Well I'm getting pretty good at whiffing of late. Let's go with Minneapolis (MSP)
AL 2: Phoenix (PHX) 2:10p - 5:48p Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP) 6:30p - 9:41p New York Newark (EWR)
Freq: Daily
Equip: B727-200
AL 1 operated in the other direction, EWR-MSP-PHX also daily with a 72S. Note that USAir had officially changed its name from Allegheny Airlines on October 28, 1979 but was still using the "AL" two letter air carrier code.
Sep 13, 2018, 8:55 am
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7A: While YYZ would seem to be the logical connecting point to get to New York, it's too late to catch the 0715 from Pembroke; your still have your seat on the 1200, but the connecting flight to JFK is sold out (as are the AA flights to LaGuardia). Some further research, though, reveals a 1430 connection from a different city that will put you into New York at 1820. Identify the two airlines, the two aircraft types, and the connecting and destination airports.
Well then, if the departure airport isn't Pembroke, let's go with Ottawa - Montreal - New York JFK. There are so many airlines on both routes especially when you factor in that the connecting airport could be either Mirabel or Dorval - assuming it's even Montreal at all. Ottawa to Mirabel came up recently as part of some questions that I was formulating for this thing of ours, so in the interest of eclecticity (is there such a word?) let's go with First Air operating a DC-3 from Ottawa to Mirabel connecting to one of the 5th freedom carriers from YMX down to JFK. I've flown the route aboard Aerolineas Argentinas, CSA and Royal Air Maroc but I'm not sure which of those were operating the route back in '79. Honestly, at this point I've no idea as I'm sure a 6:20pm arrival would have suited any of these airlines in setting up for their long international segments out of JFK. Let's go with the first in line - Aerolineas Argentinas aboard a 707.
7B: Amazingly, you see a departure from JFK at 2330, and you'll even have an hour with your colleague at the layover point before boarding the BIS flight that arrives at 0852. Identify the airline(s), the two aircraft types, any intermediate stops, and the connecting point.
This sounds an awful lot like Northwest. NW used to operate a late night 747 out of JFK that routed through DTW and possibly MKE enroute to MSP. I'm not sure about the latter stop at MKE, so let's go with the 747 via DTW connecting to a 727 of some variant across to Bismarck.
Well then, if the departure airport isn't Pembroke, let's go with Ottawa - Montreal - New York JFK. There are so many airlines on both routes especially when you factor in that the connecting airport could be either Mirabel or Dorval - assuming it's even Montreal at all. Ottawa to Mirabel came up recently as part of some questions that I was formulating for this thing of ours, so in the interest of eclecticity (is there such a word?) let's go with First Air operating a DC-3 from Ottawa to Mirabel connecting to one of the 5th freedom carriers from YMX down to JFK. I've flown the route aboard Aerolineas Argentinas, CSA and Royal Air Maroc but I'm not sure which of those were operating the route back in '79. Honestly, at this point I've no idea as I'm sure a 6:20pm arrival would have suited any of these airlines in setting up for their long international segments out of JFK. Let's go with the first in line - Aerolineas Argentinas aboard a 707.
7B: Amazingly, you see a departure from JFK at 2330, and you'll even have an hour with your colleague at the layover point before boarding the BIS flight that arrives at 0852. Identify the airline(s), the two aircraft types, any intermediate stops, and the connecting point.
This sounds an awful lot like Northwest. NW used to operate a late night 747 out of JFK that routed through DTW and possibly MKE enroute to MSP. I'm not sure about the latter stop at MKE, so let's go with the 747 via DTW connecting to a 727 of some variant across to Bismarck.
Sep 13, 2018, 9:02 am
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10. Correct! Here's the sched from November 15, 1979.....
AL 1 operated in the other direction, EWR-MSP-PHX also daily with a 72S. Note that USAir had officially changed its name from Allegheny Airlines on October 28, 1979 but was still using the "AL" two letter air carrier code.
AL 1 operated in the other direction, EWR-MSP-PHX also daily with a 72S. Note that USAir had officially changed its name from Allegheny Airlines on October 28, 1979 but was still using the "AL" two letter air carrier code.
Sep 13, 2018, 9:17 am
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Interesting. In August of '79 I purchased a 2 week Liberty Fare good for unlimited air travel over the US Air system. At that time I don't recall US Air operating any 727-200s - only a fleet of ex-United 727-022s. The -200s must've been added to the fleet shortly thereafter. Or maybe they were there all along and I just don't remember them. Question: Were they operated in a mixed configuration or were they all single class?
Take a look at this USAir print ad from 1979.....
ALalleghenygrew79
Note the statement in the ad under the heading USAir First Class concerning the introduction of first class "on selected flights".
So I think USAir offered first class on its 72S aircraft in the fall of 1979......but I'm not completely sure about this.
Sep 13, 2018, 9:28 am
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Speaking of Pan Am and its 50% interest in Avensa, let's see if I can get this photo link to work.....
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aven...milBQZEufAAKPm
Hopefully the link will work and you will see the resemblance to the Pan Am livery on this Avensa B727-200 at Miami.
I remember seeing Avensa 72S aircraft in this livery at Miami back when MIA was a much more interesting airport in terms of the sheer number of air carriers that served it, many from Latin America and the Caribbean.
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Aven...milBQZEufAAKPm
Hopefully the link will work and you will see the resemblance to the Pan Am livery on this Avensa B727-200 at Miami.
I remember seeing Avensa 72S aircraft in this livery at Miami back when MIA was a much more interesting airport in terms of the sheer number of air carriers that served it, many from Latin America and the Caribbean.
Sep 15, 2018, 12:35 pm
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18. It's a cold winter day in 1994 in Philadelphia where you have been visiting with friends for the weekend. Then the phone rings. "Hey buddy," says a familiar voice, "I've found a 54 foot catamaran for sale that is excellent condition moored at a marina in Clearwater, Florida and we need to move on this pronto. I'm in Santa Barbara and can't get away right now....(what's her name, you think)......so can you fly down there Monday morning and take a look at it?" Well, why not....and it's just too darn chilly in Philly anyway. You quickly ascertain there's a nonstop flight from PHL departing at 7:30 am that will arrive into the closest airport to Clearwater at 10:00 am. You book a seat. What airline and aircraft type will you be flying on and what airport will you arrive into?
This flight only operated once a week and the aircraft was configured with an all coach cabin. The air carrier in question is no longer in existence but operated for many years and at one point was associated with a major U.S. airline which is still operating.
This flight only operated once a week and the aircraft was configured with an all coach cabin. The air carrier in question is no longer in existence but operated for many years and at one point was associated with a major U.S. airline which is still operating.
OK. American Trans Air on a 727.
Sep 15, 2018, 1:05 pm
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I really ought to be able to get this one. The destination airport is apparently St Petersburg PIE, which I have flown myself out of many times, but the period was one of many when it didn't seem to have any airline service at all. It's presumably a holiday flight operator, with operations out of PHL. There weren't many of those which were long established.
OK. American Trans Air on a 727.
OK. American Trans Air on a 727.