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Old Feb 1, 2018, 10:04 am
  #12436  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767
glad you enjoyed it ... as noted, we're still waiting on the last two bits (destination and equipment for Segment 15 out of BUR)


I think five of these were in Florida:
1- Miami (MIA)
2- Ft Lauderdale (FLL)
3- Tampa (TPA)
4- Orlando (MCO)
5- Jacksonville (JAX)


another five were in the northeast:
6- Boston (BOS)
7- Hartford (BDL)
8- New York La Guardia (LGA)
9- New York Kennedy (JFK)
10- Philadelphia (PHL)


four out west:
11- Los Angeles (LAX)
12- San Diego (SAN)
13- San Francisco (SFO)
14- Las Vegas (LAS)


and the remaining four scattered around the system:
15- Chicago (ORD)
16- Cincinnati (CVG)
17- Memphis (MEM)
18- New Orleans (MSY)
MIA: Correct
FLL: Incorrect
TPA: Correct
MCO: Correct
JAX: Correct
BOS: Incorrect
BDL: Incorrect
JFK: Correct
LGA: Correct
PHL: Correct
LAX: Correct
LAS: Incorrect. You could, however, fly a 747 ATL-DFW-LAS, or take a DC-8-61 nonstop.
SAN: Incorrect. DL's only ATL-SAN nonstop used a (very rare) 727-95.
SFO: Correct
ORD: Correct
CVG: Correct
MEM: Correct
MSY: Correct

So, we've identified 13 airports, and ruled out 5.

Last edited by JoeDTW; Feb 1, 2018 at 10:11 am
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 12:53 pm
  #12437  
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A nice set of questions you've put together here, Joe. As one who's submitted a few questions to this thread in my time, I appreciate more than most the time and effort you've put into it. Between yourself, jrl767, WHBM, KT550 and of course quizmeister extraordinaire jlemon, we should be able to finally retire my rather dubious question formulation skills once and for all.

3. Although Delta had 52 departures from MEM (a number that would grow after deregulation), just three used L-1011s, to three different cities. Name the three cities you could take a DL L-1011 to.

Hmm... well, Chicago and Atlanta would seem like good bets. Additionally, per information provided in question 2 above, let's go with Detroit as the 3rd city.

13. Delta had been awarded rights to Phoenix in 1969. As of Oct 1976, DL had just three flights to the “valley of the sun”. All three flights went to the same city, using two types of aircraft. Name the city and equipment types.

Back in the early 70s I used to score used OAGs from travel agencies (if only I'd saved them all!) and then proceed to list every widebodied flight in the U.S., carefully handwriting each one. Phoenix was once well served by widebodied airliners, so you can imagine my surprise to see that from its Dallas hub, Delta only served Sky Harbor with DC-9-30s and even a DC-9-10 for awhile. I don't know if my recollections will be relevant to the period covered by your timetable, but those are the aircraft I'll go with for now.

14. Nashville was another city Delta was awarded authority to in 1969. Like Phoenix, DL had just three flights to “Music City” in 1976. All three flights went to the same city, using the same type of equipment. Name the city and equipment type. Hint: it wasn’t Atlanta.

When I think of Tennessee and Delta, I think of C&S. I would never have known BNA wasn't served by Delta until 1969 though. Let's go with Chicago.
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 2:18 pm
  #12438  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
A nice set of questions you've put together here, Joe. As one who's submitted a few questions to this thread in my time, I appreciate more than most the time and effort you've put into it. Between yourself, jrl767, WHBM, KT550 and of course quizmeister extraordinaire jlemon, we should be able to finally retire my rather dubious question formulation skills once and for all.

3. Although Delta had 52 departures from MEM (a number that would grow after deregulation), just three used L-1011s, to three different cities. Name the three cities you could take a DL L-1011 to.

Hmm... well, Chicago and Atlanta would seem like good bets. Additionally, per information provided in question 2 above, let's go with Detroit as the 3rd city.
ORD and ATL are correct. DTW is incorrect. General Motors had no factories in the Memphis area. GM announced plans to build a pickup truck assembly plant there in the early 1970s, but subsequently decided to build the assembly plant in Shreveport - and no, Shreveport was not served by L-1011s.

13. Delta had been awarded rights to Phoenix in 1969. As of Oct 1976, DL had just three flights to the “valley of the sun”. All three flights went to the same city, using two types of aircraft. Name the city and equipment types.

Back in the early 70s I used to score used OAGs from travel agencies (if only I'd saved them all!) and then proceed to list every widebodied flight in the U.S., carefully handwriting each one. Phoenix was once well served by widebodied airliners, so you can imagine my surprise to see that from its Dallas hub, Delta only served Sky Harbor with DC-9-30s and even a DC-9-10 for awhile. I don't know if my recollections will be relevant to the period covered by your timetable, but those are the aircraft I'll go with for now.
DFW is the correct city. However, DC-9s were no longer flown on the route.

14. Nashville was another city Delta was awarded authority to in 1969. Like Phoenix, DL had just three flights to “Music City” in 1976. All three flights went to the same city, using the same type of equipment. Name the city and equipment type. Hint: it wasn’t Atlanta.

When I think of Tennessee and Delta, I think of C&S. I would never have known BNA wasn't served by Delta until 1969 though. Let's go with Chicago.
Chicago is correct. DC-9-30s were used on all flights.

Although C&S was strong in Memphis, and pre-merger DL was strong in Knoxville and Chattanooga, Nashville was served by Eastern between the Great Lakes and points south, and American and Braniff between the Southwest and the Northeast.

TWA had been awarded a STL-BNA-ATL-TPA-MIA route in 1959, in competition with Eastern. Although the flights from STL to Florida were very successful for TWA, by the early 1970s TWA had suspended service to BNA, and had minimal service to ATL. TWA agreed to sell their dormant authority from BNA to ATL, TPA, MIA and STL to Delta for $1 Million. The CAB did not approve the transaction. TWA next tried to sell these routes to Southern, but the transaction had not been approved by the time deregulation was enacted. BNA-ATL was the first dormant route claimed by DL, and DL began serving the route within a month after deregulation took effect.

Last edited by JoeDTW; Feb 1, 2018 at 2:31 pm
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 3:04 pm
  #12439  
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3. Although Delta had 52 departures from MEM (a number that would grow after deregulation), just three used L-1011s, to three different cities. Name the three cities you could take a DL L-1011 to.

Okay, so we've got ATL and ORD. I don't recall Delta serving Florida from MEM, and I'm pretty sure Dallas was via American. That leaves Houston or New Orleans and I have vague memories of Delta L-1011 service to New Orleans once being posed as a question here. Let's go with New Orleans.

3. Delta had been awarded rights to Phoenix in 1969. As of Oct 1976, DL had just three flights to the “valley of the sun”. All three flights went to the same city, using two types of aircraft. Name the city and equipment types.

What was I thinking?! Delta probably didn't even have any DC-9-10s by 1976. So then, let's go with the increasingly ubiquitous 727-200 and a DC-8-61 for good measure.
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 3:23 pm
  #12440  
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW
1. In addition to DL’s ATL-DFW 747 service, you could take a “wide ride” L-1011 from ATL nonstop to 18 airports (not cities). Name them!
MIA, TPA, MCO, JAX, JFK, LGA, PHL, LAX, SFO, ORD, MEM, CVG, and MSY are correct.
FLL, BOS, BDL, SAN, and LAS are incorrect.
1- how about West Palm Beach (PBI), Newark (EWR), Houston (IAH), Dallas (DFW), and Columbus OH (CMH)
Originally Posted by JoeDTW
2. Somewhat surprisingly, DTW was not one of the 18 airports with an L-1011 nonstop from ATL, although there was an L-1011 night coach nonstop in the other direction. Delta did, however, have an L-1011 that stopped in the same city both northbound and southbound between DTW and ATL. Name the city. Hint: this city had several General Motors parts plants; I’m sure one of the reasons the L-1011 stopped there enroute was to pick up auto parts for GM’s Monte Carlo / Cutlass factory in Doraville, Georgia, and their Chevrolet Caprice factory in Lakewood, Georgia.
2- I'm guessing this was CVG, among the list of previously correct destinations
Originally Posted by JoeDTW
8. As ... soon as deregulation took effect, DL ended service to several airports. In addition to those listed above, DL dropped Freeport, Maracaibo, Caracas, Presque Isle, Oakland, San Jose…..and two other cities. One city was a stop on Delta’s original route from Dallas to Atlanta, and the other was a stop on the old C&S Detroit-Memphis route. Name the two other cities dropped by Delta immediately post-deregulation.
8- I think the first was Meridian MS (MEI) and the second was Evansville IN (EVV)
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 3:32 pm
  #12441  
 
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
3. Although Delta had 52 departures from MEM (a number that would grow after deregulation), just three used L-1011s, to three different cities. Name the three cities you could take a DL L-1011 to.

Okay, so we've got ATL and ORD. I don't recall Delta serving Florida from MEM, and I'm pretty sure Dallas was via American. That leaves Houston or New Orleans and I have vague memories of Delta L-1011 service to New Orleans once being posed as a question here. Let's go with New Orleans.
MSY is correct
3. Delta had been awarded rights to Phoenix in 1969. As of Oct 1976, DL had just three flights to the “valley of the sun”. All three flights went to the same city, using two types of aircraft. Name the city and equipment types.

What was I thinking?! Delta probably didn't even have any DC-9-10s by 1976. So then, let's go with the increasingly ubiquitous 727-200 and a DC-8-61 for good measure.
Winner! Winner! Chicken Mole dinner!
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 3:39 pm
  #12442  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767
1- how about West Palm Beach (PBI), Newark (EWR), Houston (IAH), Dallas (DFW), and Columbus OH (CMH)
EWR, IAH, and DFW are correct. PBI and CMH are incorrect.
2- I'm guessing this was CVG, among the list of previously correct destinations
CVG is incorrect. An L-1011 stopped there on the ATL-CVG-DTW route, but not in the reverse direction. Interestingly, there was no southbound L-1011 service at all from CVG. The city where the L-1011 stopped between DTW and ATL in both directions is one of two cities nobody has guessed yet.
8- I think the first was Meridian MS (MEI) and the second was Evansville IN (EVV)
Meridian is correct! Evansville is incorrect.

Last edited by JoeDTW; Feb 1, 2018 at 4:32 pm
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 3:43 pm
  #12443  
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1- well then, how's about Indianapolis (IND) and Dayton (DAY)
2- I know there were a handful of GM components factories (Delco) in the Dayton area, so DAY would seem to be a sensible guess
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 3:59 pm
  #12444  
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Originally Posted by JoeDTW

4. Delta had just one flight from Asheville. It made two stops enroute. Name its destination, the two places it stopped, and the equipment. Hint: the flight did not serve Atlanta.

5. Beaumont, like Asheville, was served with just one flight a day – and, like Asheville, Beaumont would be losing its Delta service in two years. The flight’s final destination was Bangor, Maine, and it would make four stops enroute. Name the stops and equipment.

6. Springfield, Missouri was another city that was about to lose its Delta service. Delta flew to Springfield just 2x day. Name the two cities you could fly Delta to nonstop out of Springfield, and the equipment used.
And I am home once again having just swooped into town from Houston following yet another business trip......

Good old Delta: in 1994, I was invited to serve on Delta's Business Travel Advisory Council (BTAC) for Los Angeles. I served a term of one year on the BTAC (with time off for good behavior) and it was a truly wonderful experience. I also flew on DL many, many times back in the day including a very large number of flights in domestic first class on board the L-1011, B727-200, B737-200, B737-300, B757-200, B767-200, B767-300, DC-9-30, MD-80 and MD-90 as well as several flights in international business class on board the L-1011-500 and MD-11. My earliest flights on DL back in my college days included flights in coach on the CV-880 and DC-8. And later on I was proud Crown Room member for a number of years.

So please allow me to swoop in here with my responses to a trio of JoeDTW's excellent quiz items.....

4. I'll bet this was a DC-9-30 heading north to Chicago O'Hare (ORD) with intermediate stops in Knoxville (TYS) and Louisville (SDF).

5. I've actually seen Delta mainline equipment at Beaumont/Port Arthur (BPT) way back when. Airplane was a B727-200 so that's what we'll go with here. Routing may have been BPT - Shreveport (SHV) - Atlanta (ATL) - New York LaGuardia (LGA) - Portland (PWM) - Bangor (BGR).

6. I'll guess Kansas City (MCI) and Little Rock (LIT). And I'll go with a DC-9-30 to MCI and a B727-200 to LIT.

Last edited by jlemon; Feb 1, 2018 at 4:44 pm Reason: added the 73S & 733 to my list of DL equipment flown in F
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Old Feb 1, 2018, 9:19 pm
  #12445  
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Originally Posted by jlemon
My earliest flights on DL back in my college days included flights in coach on the CV-880 and DC-8.
I remember well my first flight on Delta. It came the afternoon after my first flight on National. Back in 1973, night coach and K class fares between Los Angeles and San Diego were only $6.86 each way. (About $40.00 today). I was a high school student and we were on Thanksgiving break. I caught a bus down to LAX, boarded National's DC-10-10 "Phyllis" and spent the next 30 minutes reveling amidst a sea of pale yellow, orange and green upholstered seats. I slept in the airport and was contacted by the airport police the next day while out photographing airliners with my trusty Kodak 110 instamatic camera. They recommended I go back to LA sooner than later and were pleased that I was already in possession of a one way ticket aboard Delta's mid-afternoon departure. That was my first flight aboard not only Delta but also the DC-8-61. In later years I would log flights aboard every stretch 8 in both Delta and United's fleets. Alas, I never managed to log any time aboard two of the prettiest examples of their day - those wearing National's Sun King livery and Eastern's two-tone Ionosphere blue and Caribbean blue hockey stick livery.

Somewhat surprisingly, DTW was not one of the 18 airports with an L-1011 nonstop from ATL, although there was an L-1011 night coach nonstop in the other direction. Delta did, however, have an L-1011 that stopped in the same city both northbound and southbound between DTW and ATL. Name the city. Hint: this city had several General Motors parts plants; I’m sure one of the reasons the L-1011 stopped there enroute was to pick up auto parts for GM’s Monte Carlo / Cutlass factory in Doraville, Georgia, and their Chevrolet Caprice factory in Lakewood, Georgia.There was a northbound flight that routed ATL-CVG-DTW, but no southbound L-1011s between DTW and ATL stopped there.

There really aren't a lot of options here. CLE is out, as is CMH. South of Ohio lie Kentucky and Tennessee and if not Memphis, I don't believe Delta has ever flown a widebody into SDF or LEX. TYS and CHA are out, and it seems logical that car parts plants wouldn't be too far from Michigan - as in the state next door. So that leaves... Dayton. While the only L-1011 I ever recall serving DAY was a TWA bird, I can't think of anywhere else that would seem to ft the bill. Dayton. That is my final answer.

As mentioned above, as soon as deregulation took effect, DL ended service to several airports. In addition to those listed above, DL dropped Freeport, Maracaibo, Caracas, Presque Isle, Oakland, San Jose…..and two other cities. One city was a stop on Delta’s original route from Dallas to Atlanta, and the other was a stop on the old C&S Detroit-Memphis route. Name the two other cities dropped by Delta immediately post-deregulation.Meridian, Mississippi was the stop between Dallas and Atlanta. The stop between Detroit and Memphis was not Evansville, Indiana

Any chance this might have been Paducah, Kentucky?

Last edited by Seat 2A; Feb 2, 2018 at 12:46 pm
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Old Feb 2, 2018, 6:56 am
  #12446  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767
1- well then, how's about Indianapolis (IND) and Dayton (DAY)
2- I know there were a handful of GM components factories (Delco) in the Dayton area, so DAY would seem to be a sensible guess
Dayton is correct, and it was the stop for the DTW-ATL flight. IND is incorrect.

The schedule for the flights is: Leave Detroit 8:50 AM on DL 1037, arrive Dayton 9:30 AM. Leave Dayton 10:10 AM, arrive Atlanta 11:31 AM.
Leave Atlanta 4:14 PM on DL 1044, arrive Dayton 5:30 PM. Leave Dayton 6:15 PM, arrive Detroit 6:54 PM.
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Old Feb 2, 2018, 7:04 am
  #12447  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
4. I'll bet this was a DC-9-30 heading north to Chicago O'Hare (ORD) with intermediate stops in Knoxville (TYS) and Louisville (SDF).
Correct!
5. I've actually seen Delta mainline equipment at Beaumont/Port Arthur (BPT) way back when. Airplane was a B727-200 so that's what we'll go with here. Routing may have been BPT - Shreveport (SHV) - Atlanta (ATL) - New York LaGuardia (LGA) - Portland (PWM) - Bangor (BGR).
Correct!
6. I'll guess Kansas City (MCI) and Little Rock (LIT). And I'll go with a DC-9-30 to MCI and a B727-200 to LIT.
MCI and LIT are correct. However, the 727 200 was used on both flights.
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Old Feb 2, 2018, 7:18 am
  #12448  
 
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Seat 2A, you are correct - the city dropped between DTW and MEM was Paducah.

Asheville was a city that did not fit into DL's route system, because it was close to Atlanta, but the airlines that had nonstop authority between AVL and ATL were PI and UA / Capital, not Delta. In 1974, Delta and Piedmont proposed a route swap, where DL would give PI their AVL-Chicago route, and PI would give DL their dormant routes from CHS to CLT, RDU, and GSO (PI flew just two flights from CHS to CAE with FH-227s, in competition with DL and SO). The exchange would have enabled DL to close their AVL station, and PI to close their CHS station. The CAB vetoed this transaction, like the TWA / DL BNA transaction mentioned earlier.
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Old Feb 2, 2018, 10:13 am
  #12449  
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11. We've had a lot of fun with DL multi stop flights in this forum, and one of the all time most unusual is listed in this timetable. The "Delta Air Lines family tree" flight leaves Portland, Maine at 7:10 AM, and arrives in Augusta, Georgia at 5:42 PM, with eight intermediate stops. The first five segments of the flight are ex-Northeast. The next two segments are ex-Chicago & Southern, and the last two segments are legacy Delta. Name the eight stops.

11. Northeast did not have much in the way of east-west routes. One was MIA-LAX flown nonstop with a 727 (which must have been interesting on the westbound when strong headwinds were present) and before that a milk run service operated with a DC-9-30 between New England and Chicago. I believe it's this latter former NE westbound route we are interested in with flight then turning south and finally east. So here's my guess:

* Portland (PWM)

1. Manchester (MHT)
2. Burlington (BTV)
3. Cleveland (CLE)
4. Detroit (DTW)
5. Chicago (ORD)
6. St. Louis (STL)
7. Memphis (MEM)
8. Atlanta (ATL)

* Augusta (AGS)
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Old Feb 2, 2018, 11:13 am
  #12450  
 
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Originally Posted by jlemon
11. We've had a lot of fun with DL multi stop flights in this forum, and one of the all time most unusual is listed in this timetable. The "Delta Air Lines family tree" flight leaves Portland, Maine at 7:10 AM, and arrives in Augusta, Georgia at 5:42 PM, with eight intermediate stops. The first five segments of the flight are ex-Northeast. The next two segments are ex-Chicago & Southern, and the last two segments are legacy Delta. Name the eight stops.

11. Northeast did not have much in the way of east-west routes. One was MIA-LAX flown nonstop with a 727 (which must have been interesting on the westbound when strong headwinds were present) and before that a milk run service operated with a DC-9-30 between New England and Chicago. I believe it's this latter former NE westbound route we are interested in with flight then turning south and finally east. So here's my guess:

* Portland (PWM)

1. Manchester (MHT)
2. Burlington (BTV)
3. Cleveland (CLE)
4. Detroit (DTW)
5. Chicago (ORD)
6. St. Louis (STL)
7. Memphis (MEM)
8. Atlanta (ATL)

* Augusta (AGS)
You are 100% accurate! The equipment was a DC-9-30.

Here's the full itinerary for DL 651:
Lv PWM 7:10, Ar MHT 7:38
Lv MHT 8:00 Ar BTV 8:34
Lv BTV 8:55, Ar CLE 10:15 (Breakfast served)
Lv CLE 10:35, Ar DTW 11:04
Lv DTW 11:25, Ar ORD 11:20
Lv ORD 12:05, Ar STL 13:01 (Snack served)
Lv STL 13:25, Ar MEM 14:14
Lv MEM 14:36, Ar ATL 16:33
Lv ATL 17:00, Ar AGS 17:42

Last edited by JoeDTW; Feb 2, 2018 at 1:13 pm
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