Seat 2A

Ah... the memories...

44 years ago today, I logged my first flights aboard Northwest

04-Aug
BIL HLN NORTHWEST 727-200 N285US 180
HLN BTM NORTHWEST 727-200 N285US 60
BTM MSO NORTHWEST 727-200 N285US 100
MSO GEG NORTHWEST 727-200 N285US 180
GEG SEA NORTHWEST 727-200 N265US 230
SEA PDX NORTHWEST 747-100 N601US 130

Over the next 33 years I logged an additional 199 flights and 226460. Northwest always treated me well and I have nothing but good memories of my flights with them.

BTW, the flights listed above were part of my second trip to Hawaii. I spent two weeks and less then $200 total in the islands (lots of camping out on beaches, hitchhiking and ramen noodles.) I flew home and back to college via the following routing...

20-Aug
ITO KOA ALOHA 737-200 N73713 70
KOA OGG ALOHA 737-200 N73713 70
OGG HNL ALOHA 737-200 N73713 110
21-Aug
HNL LAX UNITED 747-100 N4711U 2560
23-Aug
LAX SFO UNITED DC-8-61 N8079U 340
31-Aug
SFO ABQ CONTINENTAL 727-200 N32724 890
ABQ DEN CONTINENTAL 727-200 N88713 340
4-Sep
DEN PUB FRONTIER CVR-580 N73168 100
PUB ALS FRONTIER CVR-580 N73168 80
ALS DRO FRONTIER CVR-580 N73168 130

jrl767

10- as far as service from East Coast / Mid-Atlantic hubs to YUL in 1990, neither United (Dulles/IAD), Continental (Newark/EWR), nor American (Nashville/BNA or Raleigh-Durham/RDU) jumps out; as usual, Eastern (Atlanta/ATL) is probably too easy a guess ... so about the only other possibility for a more-or-less-direct routing from JAX would seem to be EA over LaGuardia/LGA, probably with a DC-9-30

31- I remember United ran a 737-322 from MEX to San Francisco (SFO) ... let's try that continuing up to SEA

Track

The best part of El Tapatio was the ex-New York Central round-end lounge observation car on the end. At least it was in 1976 when I rode the train (through ex-NYC sleeper from Nogales on El Conteno/El Tapatio to Mexico City). From Guadalajara to Mexico City the train was all-sleeper, plus the diner and lounge car - the coaches and heavy-weight diner went only as far as Guadalajara.

WHBM

OK; What about Allegheny One-Eleven 204AF Syracuse to Washington DCA; National 727-35 Washington to Miami.

I'm at a bit of a disadvantage with this detailed aircraft type stuff. Unlike the OAG (well, the North American version anyway), the equivalent ABC, as distributed in the rest of the world, didn't distinguish between the sub-types, it was just 727. The same was true for many of the airlines' own timetables. I know OAG did, and it was always a surprise when I picked up the odd one or two to find they did so. And so, for those carriers who had multiple variants, it's a bit of a lottery. But that's how it is. Incidentally, I notice it doesn't seem to apply so far to any European types such as the One-Eleven or the Caravelle, so I guess I can be super-picky on those. As above. Don't forget the AF bit, folks.

Bonus question then : American had the One-Eleven 400 model done as a special adaptation to meet US regulations. But Braniff and Mohawk bought the One-Eleven 200 model. Both the same size, same power, etc, and those operated in the US quite OK. So what was the US regulation adaptation that American required. The 400 became the de-facto specification for the standard size One-Eleven, but Mohawk continued to buy the 200 model, presumably for compatibility.

Seat 2A

Seat 2A

Indeed. Back in the early 1970s I used to ride the train from Mexicali down the coast to Empalme (just outside Guaymas) and once to Guadalajara. On that Guadalajara train, we picked up a lounge car at Benjamin Hill that to this day remains the finest lounge car I have ever ridden in. It featured overstuffed lounge chairs, a beautiful wooden stand up bar and if I remember correctly some potted plants. The Mexican railroads took advantage of a lot of surplus equipment from US railroads after Amtrak took over passenger operations in 1971. Amtrak ran only a fraction of the trains that were operating just one year earlier, so there were lots of surplus cars, some of them quite nice.Additionally, back then most of these cars were still in pretty good shape, having been built in the late forties and early fifties. By the late eighties however, they were definitely showing their age, a problem exacerbated by the fact that for the most part they were not well maintained on a regular basis. I count myself lucky to have logged a lot of time in quality accommodations aboard inexpensive Mexican trains in the 1980s. By the early 1990s, after Mexico had deregulated its airline industry and cheaper air travel proliferated, intercity rail travel came to an end with just a couple odd-ball exceptions, one of them being the Copper Canyon train between Chihuahua and Los Mochis. I rode First Class on this train in 1984 for about $15 USD. When I rode the new tourist railroad CHEPE over the same route in 2006, I paid $143.00.

jlemon

Although it was rare to see it, the North American OAG did differentiate between the standard BAC One-Eleven and the stretched series 500 model. An example can be found in the February 1976 OAG concerning the schedules between Grand Cayman and Miami. The BAC One Eleven series 500 service operated by LACSA between GCM and MIA is listed using the OAG aircraft code "S11". However, I wonder if such equipment designations originated with each air carrier when they submitted schedule information to the OAG. And that's because all of the Cayman Airways scheduled BAC One-Eleven service appearing in later editions of the OAG are listed with the aircraft code "B11" even though the airline was operating the BAC One-Eleven series 500 at the time (KX subsequently replaced their stretched One-Elevens with Boeing 727-200 equipment, of course).

This also reminds me of a conversation I had with a Cayman Airways ticket agent at Miami some years ago. I was checking in as a NRSA passenger traveling on an airline pass and wasn't sure if the flight I was attempting to travel on to Grand Cayman was operated with a B737-200 or a B737-400. I was hoping for a 737-400 as it had a first class cabin and I had had very good luck in the past scoring a seat up front on the 734 on KX. And so I asked the following question: "Sir, what is the equipment on the flight today?" His reply: "Ah, it is a jet, mon......."

Bonus Question: I believe American had U.S. manufactured flight deck instrumentation and perhaps some other U.S. made equipment installed by BAC on their One-Eleven 401AK aircraft.

And I have a question as well concerning the BAC One-Eleven aircraft operated by American although it's not a quiz question as I do not know the answer. Looking at the photo of the AA One-Eleven aircraft, one can see a rectangular section of lighter colored metal on the mid fuselage. What was the reason for this?

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Amer...O9C6OH/8uSWGAY

WHBM

I'm sure the aircraft designators did originate with the airline data. maybe what was in the schedule was given to ABC, whereas OAG took it from the reservation system, in which the seating capacity etc of the aircraft is a key aspect.

It must be difficult nowadays for OAG with the (normal) BA Airbus operation in Europe, where the type is always given as A320. In practice, they vary between A319, A320 and A321 by the day, dependent on calculation, how the bookings are going, etc, quite easy to do when the crews are qualified on all variants and they all run from the same base. There's a basic game plan that suits the fleet size, but it's invariably rearranged each day.

I understand the American order did have that US (Honeywell ?) manufactured instruments, rather than good old Smiths of Cricklewood, North London (if you ever had an old British sports car, the "Smiths" on the speedometer is the same instrument company), but that was more in the nature of a customer option rather than a certification different type. For example, BEA had their One-Eleven instrument switches work the opposite way to British Caledonian, both on the -500 variant. Reason ? Because the BEA Hawker Siddeley Trident fleet switches went the opposite way to the BAC standard that B Cal had, and BEA wanted their own consistency. When the two companies and fleets merged up it was a significant issue for the UK CAA, and as BA didn't want to rewire half the fleet it was split, the onetime BEA aircraft were crewed from Heathrow, Manchester and Berlin, while the old B Cal ones ran from Gatwick and Birmingham. No pilot mixing allowed.

However the -400 for American was a little more fundamental - starting in the paperwork.

jrl767

indeed ... N1132J (ex-Mohawk) and N4618 (nicknamed "Rita")
starting with the 707, Boeing established a unique customer designator for each customer (both airlines and leasing companies), and appended it to the basic aircraft model; needless to say, they didn't anticipate the customer base getting as large as it did, and they had to discontinue the practice with the 787 program ... as far as Seat 2A's "rules" for the Quiz, we typically don't dig down below the aircraft series (-100, -200, etc for Boeing; -50, -60, etc for McDonnell Douglas)

I believe this had to do with some of the flight instruments and communication/navigation system controls, but can't put a finger on any specifics

EDIT: I see that there was some discussion as I was composing my reply ... the issue of switch direction raised its ugly head in a Delta (ex-Northeast) DC-9-30 accident at BOS in 1973; I'll see if I can find the relevant info

WHBM

This fuselage section is made of a different spec of aluminium as it is strengthened where the wing box attaches. Normally never noticed as airlines paint the fuselage, except American of course who just polished the bare metal. And being a different material spec, it looked a bit different. Did the One-Eleven last with US Airways into their bare polished livery era ?

I think the different fuselage sections were made in different BAC factories; the One-Eleven was assembled at the Hurn, Bournemouth plant, but significant parts were made at Weybridge, SW London (where the Brooklands aircraft museum is now, and where a few early One-Elevens were actually assembled alongside the VC-10), and Filton, Bristol (where Concorde was built). It's a common way to build. I recall passing on a truck on the M4 motorway the centre fuselage section for BAe146 #100 , which had a special banner on it to celebrate the 100th such built at Filton. It was going to the Hatfield, North London plant where they were assembled. Must have been early 1988, it was delivered then to TNT, the European overnight cargo carrier.

Here's an image of another unpainted one I could find, a manufacturers' prototype. http://www.bac1-11jet.co.uk/bac1-11j...%20History.htm

Seat 2A

The "quote - unquote" "rules" merely call for differentiating aircraft variants that are substantially different in size (DC-8-50 vs DC-8-61) or build (737-200 vs 737-300). As such, the "rules" would not call for differentiating between a DC-10-10 as opposed to a DC-10-30. Would you prefer that we remove the quotation marks and just go with a generic 737 or DC-9 from now on?

Another one of these silly "rules" that we could probably do away with is the penchant amongst some for multiple guess answers, as in "well I'd posit that it must be an Eastern L-1011 but if not, then it might be a Delta L-1011"

And lastly, we could just scrap that ridiculous two question a day limit. What a silly "rule". Just think, instead of stretching this out over days with multiple participants, we could have the core participants just answer as many questions as they could and just be done with it in three or four days. I like it. This would give me more time to download food porn on the internet and argue the difference between terms like "atom" or "monad" on eclectic forums. I'd like that!

Lemme know.

jrl767

my last flight on a US Air One-Eleven was on 1 Sep 1983 (BWI-BOS, N1542), and I believe the jet was in bare-metal with three-tone red

jlemon

Perhaps I should get my eyes checked at my advanced age, but this sure appears to be a rather blurry photo.......

jlemon

I vote we keep your rules as I think they are just fine. And specifically with regard to the equipment, I like the fact you are basically following the OAG aircraft codes with examples being 727, 72S, 737, 73M, 73S, 733, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 739, 747, 743, 744, 757, 753, 767, 763, 764, DC8, D8S, DC9, D9S, D95, L10, L15, etc. etc. etc.......

jrl767

lol, it’s not my photo ... I was going to provide a link to the online original, but it’s obviously a fairly low-resolution image; it was also apparently manually resized to a square format (420x420), and looks rather like some of the fire/rescue training devices that are at various airports (one with which I’m of course quite familiar is by the north cargo ramp at SEA)

anyway, I re-resized a copy to something resembling the right proportions


*****************
as far as rules for guesses, OAG codes are certainly a good way to determine what constitutes a correct answer ... in many cases, the individual posing the question has provided some clarification where the OAG code was actually generic (I’m thinking of a couple of recent instances where a response included a particular model but the OAG only showed “CVR” and “JET”)

I’m all in favor of keeping the two-questions-per-day limit in place ... that hasn’t been an issue for the vast majority of our participants for quite a while now