Avoiding tipping?
#211
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Programs: Hyatt Diamond, Fairmont Platinum, Aeroplan Diamond, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 18,686
If I got the change.. I will tip. If I don't have the change, I simply let the worker know that I don't have change on me.. Then try to double up the next time I see them. I don't mind tipping.. I just don't have time always break down change to do so.. but I eventually get around to it, and make an effort.
#212




Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: ORD-JFK-EZE-MAD
Programs: AA LT PLT 4mm / Free Agent / GE / Secret Handshake
Posts: 868
Unfortunately, in America, people are conditioned to tip from early on in their lives. Most of the service workers, especially those employed by the food service and hotel industries are just one step above slavery.
Some people should watch "In Debt We Trust" and similar documentaries. It is all explained there.
--J
#213

Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: QFF WP
Posts: 379
Good question. By experience, living and working in the US, I know where tipping is customary and where it is not. If you are not a US resident and truly do not know where tipping is customary, you are well advised to ask someone when you first come to the US for a visit.
One of the extremely annoying side-effects of the US tipping culture in restaurants and similar, is that it is apparently considered very bad form and/or will result in "retaliation" to flag down a waiter or waitress who isn't "yours", or to go up to the bar to order drinks when you are also receiving table service - doubly so if you are with a group and used to the tradition of "rounds".
Personally, since moving to the US, I have found the tipping culture to add a significant amount of stress to any situation where I might be expected to tip - but that is to some degree because I didn't grow up in such a stratified culture and hence don't just "know" how much to tip in given circumstances.
I have frequently been told by my US friends that if I return to an establishment where I've tipped badly - and especially if I am served by the same staff - to expect poor service. In that context, a tip is absolutely a bribe - one to ensure good service on return visits. Indeed, you even acknowledge this point yourself.
#214
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
#215

Join Date: Jan 2008
Programs: QFF WP
Posts: 379
Anyway, the "underlying notion" fundamentally has little to do with good service, it's pure economics - waitstaff get paid less than minimum wage and the assumption is that a significant proportion of their income will be made up from tipping (most importantly, the Government assumes this when it taxes them). The idea it's a tradition to reward "good service" is exposed as specious simply by considering all the other service-based jobs where tips are not given. Do you tip your accountant, your lawyer, or your dentist ?
#216
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: CHC
Programs: QF-Gold
Posts: 233
One of the extremely annoying side-effects of the US tipping culture in restaurants and similar, is that it is apparently considered very bad form and/or will result in "retaliation" to flag down a waiter or waitress who isn't "yours", or to go up to the bar to order drinks when you are also receiving table service - doubly so if you are with a group and used to the tradition of "rounds".
While I agree with QueenOfCoach and others that one should follow the cultures of the country that they are visiting, we don't have to like every aspect of it. When a restaurant has multiple waitstaff running around, it provides a much better experience for the customer if a request can be made to whichever staff member is the nearest at the time. Why should the customer have to be distracted from the enjoyment of their meal to constantly look around trying to attract the attention of one person in particular? Likewise, a customer should have the right to buy drinks from the bar if they so choose. It may be faster, or they may simply see it as a way to separate expenditure on food and drink (for business lunches sometimes alcohol needs to be invoiced separately). I'm sure any difference in the tips resulting from this behaviour could be sorted out by adjusting the amount that the bartender is tipped by the waiter.
#217
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern Italian Lakes
Programs: BA, *A, Hertz Goldstar, Mucci wannabee, Waitrose, safari Oleg
Posts: 1,545
Not true
Not true. The UK Inland Revenue calculates and taxes employees on an assessment of tips received. That assessment can even exceed tips actually received. If so, tough. The employee is still taxed accordingly. The Revenue has different scales by industry.
#218
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern Italian Lakes
Programs: BA, *A, Hertz Goldstar, Mucci wannabee, Waitrose, safari Oleg
Posts: 1,545
Well, I have not heard any servers on this thread complaining about the IRS calculating more tip income than they actually received. My guess is that's because that is not what is happening. The people 'complaining' mean well but do not have first-hand knowledge of how tips are reported. Let me state again that tips may be calculated differently by different establishments, but it is common knowledge that waiting tables in the U.S. is a well-paying job (considering it requires no formal education and the alternative is working for minimum wage).
Even though servers make a decent amount of money and one non-tipper per night will not destroy a server's earnings, not tipping is the crappy thing to do when it is absolutely the custom of this land.
Even though servers make a decent amount of money and one non-tipper per night will not destroy a server's earnings, not tipping is the crappy thing to do when it is absolutely the custom of this land.
#219
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Eastern Pennsylvania
Programs: CO Gold, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 71
I thought of that, but cash left on the desk stays on the desk until checkout. I've even folded it into the cards I sometimes see from the housekeeper introducing herself or from the hotel saying maid service is twice a week. It usually remains untouched.
#220




Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,456
I have found the tipping culture to add a significant amount of stress to any situation where I might be expected to tip
It's just like moving to a new place and learning where the roads go. Eventually, it will be second nature.
#221




Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,456
The idea it's a tradition to reward "good service" is exposed as specious simply by considering all the other service-based jobs where tips are not given. Do you tip your accountant, your lawyer, or your dentist ?
It's not a difficult concept. Try very hard to figure it out.
#222




Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold but PlatPro thanks to LPs
Posts: 4,456
that one should follow the cultures of the country that they are visiting, we don't have to like every aspect of it.
And... I REALLY RESENT people from other countries coming here and saying we should do it their way. That is an idiotic thing to say. When I go to their country, I do it their way. Do I enjoy bagging my own groceries in Europe? No, not particularly. But I do it without whining about how I don't have to bag groceries back in the US.
Like the Japanese system? Stay in Japan. Like the Australian system? Stay in Australia.
Last edited by QueenOfCoach; Jan 17, 2011 at 7:16 am Reason: sp
#223
Join Date: Apr 2010
Programs: AA Advantage; Marriot; Hyatt
Posts: 42
Decades ago, I worked in housekeeping at a hotel. I remember this quite well from training: never, never, never take any money left in the room (or anything else, of course!). It did not matter where the money was or how much it was ("not even a quarter!"). Never, never assume it was a tip. Even if it was labeled "tip", or "for housekeeping". Only after the guest had checked out could you assume it was a tip. At any rate, tips were not common at all.
#224
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 92
When I visited a friend who moved to Amsterdam, and we went out for our first meal, she explained that anything we wanted, we had to order the first time the waiter appeared at the table...because we wouldn't see him again for the rest of the meal. 
She also told the story of a business trip to the U.S. with a colleague who hadn't been to North America before. He felt like a VIP with all the attentive wait staff in the restaurants.
That said, I carry my own bags, and avoid valet parking like the plague.

She also told the story of a business trip to the U.S. with a colleague who hadn't been to North America before. He felt like a VIP with all the attentive wait staff in the restaurants.
That said, I carry my own bags, and avoid valet parking like the plague.
#225
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,595
Not true. In the UK whilst working as a student, I waitressed. I was taxed according to the rate of tips received by waiters at that location, as assessed by the Inland Revenue. Depending on the day, I might not actually make those tips. e.g. if I had a lot of German or Japanese customers, who don't tip. Australians were also largely notorious for not tipping, even when they knew the employer in the UK expects wages to be made up to liveable to tipping. So I'm the one that's done it and is now on flyertalk. Trust me it's true.

