Obviously hit a nerve here. Since it's America, and America is all about free market, you should welcome the customer paying the price they see fit. If the establishment/server makes it clear that a tip of a minimum amount is a contractual obligation (before service is entered into) then tip it is. If the server doesn't like that, they are welcome to find another job in the free market which they do like (or, live the American dream and start their own business).

If I'm not required by law to tip, and I'm not required by contractual agreement to tip, then don't expect me to tip. Even in America. It's your fault for not stating it as a requirement at the outright.

If a service charge has been added to the bill, on top of the stated menu prices, then that is the tip. If the service was really great and you feel so moved as to tip some more, then sure, go ahead. If the service was "normal", then just pay the bill with the service charge.

I have to say that I rarely see this kind of service charge added to a bill UNLESS it's a large party. Restaurants will typically have some kind of notice on their menu that a grautity will be added automatically for parties of X or more. (Usually eight.)

This protects the restaurant from a situation where the person paying the bill for a large party stiffs the tip, either intentionally or not.

Having said that... the tip is still voluntary. I was in a large party, once, where the service was just horrible. The restaurant environment left a great deal to be desired, other words, it was not just the server's fault. We called the manager over and negotiated down the tip, for good reason. This was done after all in the group agreed that the service was way, way below par and that a poor tip was appropriate. (All involved were Americans, and were nice people who would normally tip properly.)

I'll add this.

Many establishments, including restaurants, have some kind of notice to the effect of:

"We reserve the right to refuse service to any customer."

So long as that refusal is not based on legally protected characteristics like race, religion, national origen, disabilities, the place can refuse service.

(Note: By national origen I do not mean nationality. Refusing to serve people with Italian-sounding last names is discrimination by national origen, and is illegal. Refusing to serve people with Italian citizenship is discrimination by nationality and is legal.)

Thus: If the restaurant manager gets the impression that you are a poor tipper, that manager is perfectly within his/her rights to refuse service to you, based on a poor tipper profile. If, for example, the restaurant manager notices that Martians are usually poor tippers, and when challenged the Martians say "We don't tip at home, Earthling, why tip here?", the restaurant manager can refuse service to anyone who is Martian. (He cannot refuse service just based on a Martian-sounding last name or green skin.)

Furthermore, a good manager in a good restaurant with a good staff will do exactly that, just to protect the staff. Why fill up tables with notorious bad tippers when, instead, you can fill up tables with decent tippers and keep your staff happy?

Or, if business is slower, why not stick the bad tipping Martians at the table next to the restrooms and just give them indifferent service? Who cares? They won't tip even if you knock yourself out for them. Save your good tables and better service for Earthlings who do know how to tip.

[Quote deleted by Moderator to conform to the earlier deletion of the quoted post.]

I'm just annoyed with people who say "Back home in my country, we don't tip. Therefore, why should I tip in while in the US? The Americans should do it our way."

I don't travel to other countries and say stuff like that. I follow local customs. I bag my own groceries while in Europe. I refer to the "lift" and the "toilet" instead of the "elevator" and the "restroom" while in the UK. I eat pizza with a knife and fork, instead of picking it up with my fingers as is usual in the US.

Sure, it's a free market. I suspect the manager would be better off spending his time counting his cash pile and just stick up a sign saying minimum 10% service charge and call it a day.

But in America, tipping is optional. Otherwise it would be mandated by law. So when in America, I do as the American legal system allows. May not seem fair to all, but it is what it is, and so expect it to be treated for what it is.

Born in the US, and not a tightwad at all.


Not my problem.


You seem to misunderstand the business relationship that is happening here. I am entering a transaction with the establishment, not the employee. Why should I hurt the business just because you think I should overpay for my meal? How the business wants to treat their employees is up to them, asking me to pay bribery because you don't like their pay structure is, again, not my problem.

I am not depriving the employee of anything other than a bribe, and a bribe that some here feel must be paid even for poor performance. Sorry, but I don't participate in bribery.

What the employer does with the employees is a free market issue. If waiters don't like how the pay is structured they need to find a new job. If the pool of candidates for wait staff dries up the wages will go up. Simple supply and demand, and it happens all over the country.


It appears you have answered your own questions.

But to provide you some insight, no, I agree with government rules regarding health and safety.

No, full service means I am paying the hotel more money for more service. How they handle their employees is up to them.

To start: I am British and live in Continental Europe.

Personally I prefer the european method of having service included in the price and tipping where a tip indicates at least "good" service or better. However when in the US, I know that tipping is expected and will tip accordingly for "average" service and above.

If I receive poor service then you will not get a tip, regardless of which country I am in or what the server thinks s/he is entitled to.

If the establishment has a built in service charge, then I will tip the same way I do in Europe (i.e. a small tip for "good" service, a larger tip for very good service). If you put the credit card slip down for me and expressively say "this is where you put in the amount for my tip" (happened to me in a higher class Spanish restaurant), then you've just done yourself out of a tip.

I tip for numerous things (some of which are not customary in the country where I live, because I appreciate good service). These include; taxi drivers, hairdressers, manicurists, delivery people (take-aways, not postmen/Fedex deliveries!), tailor.

I'm not tight-fisted and I generally live by the "When in Rome" rule, but at the end of the day I don't see why I should pay anything more than the "official" price for a mediocre result. Indeed if it was a dire result then I wouldn't even expect to pay the "official" price (i.e. i would be taking it up with the manager).

what he said

No, she hasn't. I've asked the same question numerous times that has remained unanswered by her. I'll be asking it again below. If the replies are tedious, why are you reading them? Clearly, you must WANT to read them.

Fair enough.

No, I didn't say that. I said we don't do waiting lists. If places are busy in which we haven't made a reservation, whether they take them or not, we go someplace else. As for apologizing for being psychic, not sure to what that's in reference. Perhaps you shouldn't make assumptions about people's dining habits. ^

That's not a service to me personally; that's a service to the owner of the business. If the person who answers the phone doesn't want to take reservations without getting a tip, the restaurant management will find that they are losing customers at warp speed.

Is it the server's choice to do so? It seems most of what QoC is saying is that tips belong to everyone who makes the evening at a restaurant a success. But then she says the tip is "the server's money to do with what they want." Which is it? Simple question.

The manicurist keeps her entire tip even though there are others who clean and maintain the salon. My hairdresser keeps her ENTIRE tip (and that tip is huge LOL) as well as the shampoo girl keeps her ENTIRE tip even though there is a staff who cleans and maintains both of these salons.

I've worked many years as tour guide for Americans and tips are usually a part of my income. I've done some work for a company that included all tips in their price and paid me a much higher wage. It was better for me and the tour members. The group would still give me cards with nice comments on them at the end of the trip, but they didn't have to worry about what tips to give me and others. I was motivated to work just as hard as group members' comments about my performance were published online and had a bearing on getting more work.

There might be a market in the US for all service included restaurants or hotels (with higher wages paid to staff), but most consumers would chose the lower sticker price even if they ended paying the same or more in the end.

Choose a hotel with pretty much the most part gratuities included.. such as Banff Springs.

I am not opposed to tipping but I see a problem in tipping when,
1. I carry a small wheeled luggage and don't need anyone to carry my baggage (I feel uncomfortable when Hotel bellboy comes running and open my cab/car door and grabs my bag from the trunk and make me obliged).
2. I feel like being ripped off when a simple drink costs $9-12 and the bar tender expects to be tipped. I think it is tacky to keep a glass jar with a couple of bills on the counter.
3. Last week in a famous Hotel, I encountered 7 attendants (doorman, bellboy, valet, ...) at the front door. I consider this over employment.
4. Most often employers hire people and expect them to support themselves by "tip" money. I have seen restaurant/hotel workers doing a poor job but expect a great tip. In my recent Hawaii trip, the Hotel swimming pool attendant expected a tip when there were no towels and the zacuzzi was not running.
5. I like it whe rich gusts mistake me for a Hotel employee and try to tip me when I give them the most common courtesy or help them! I could definitely supplement my professorial salary!