Delusional or (im)plausible deniability?

I used my Specialized Web Browser(tm) to browse the KVS code and find this interesting string in the flightstats scraper code:
This appears to be when KVS scraping tripped flightstats scraper detection and diverted it to this page:
http://www.flightstats.com/fserror/t...violation.html
The KVS special browser seems to translate that page to this:
I would have thought a web browser would show what was on that page?

Actually, it only appears when a particular user exceeds the website's usage limits.

Not since the introduction of "Friendly Error Messages" in Internet Explorer 5 back in 1998:
http://Wiki.MetaWerx.net/wiki/FriendlyHTTPErrorMessage

We follow the conventional web browser industry practices in that regard:
http://WebAim.org/blog/user-agent-string-history/

What happened to the "Time" field on the mobile companion?

I just upgraded to 7.7.0 and I still don't see the Fares (fare types with the number of seats?) in my KVS tool.

Edit to add:
Nevermind... I just went back and read five pages of the thread. Sad that the main thing I used the tool for (availability) is no longer there.

I believe KVSTool sends the following
Rather than the conventional web browser standard shown on that page linked above, which would be something like

If this is indeed the case (and please feel free to provide the actual string you use), surely the tool is fraudulently (done to trick someone for the purpose of getting something valuable) pretending to be a different web browser? It seems the company that provides the KVSTool web browser claims it's a special custom web browser, and it isn't MSIE 6.

If KVSTool isn't trying to hide itself from the servers your clients are using, why wouldn't it identify itself using the standard HTTP UserAgent string?

To be fair, according to Fiddler, I do believe KVS is sending a KVS specific user agent when I used it to monitor traffic to British Airways.

Then use it rather than KVS for this purpose.

Wasn't the case on the POSTs I was looking at in wireshark, but in that case then I apologise, and then wonder why the whackamole sources can't just block KVSTool.

Which brings up an interesting observation, a web browser is not a web browser anymore if it is generating its own unique http post requests that are not otherwise available in the accessible http source when accessing the site. At which point you are not passively browsing, you are actively generating server requests.

Such was the case with our Russian fare friends with the "TARIFF" modification in the post string that does not exist anywhere on their website.

But to answer your question, the browser http header can be filled with whatever you want. Could be nothing or could be "User-Agent: KVS 7.5 (Scrapping your sh!t)". The sites have no idea about KVS because the web requests are coming from your computer (IP) and with your unique session information (cookies) at times with your credentials (login id, password). But you do hit on a good point, automatic agents such as this are supposed to follow the robot.txt rules.

I'm guessing if someone was able to put together the evidence for flight stats that the heavy traffic without ad image opening was due to solely to KVS Tool and not a widespread user group (as what it would appear from their server end with all the IPs) then maybe they would reconsider their business decision.

Except KVS Tool isn't a web robot (which crawls web sites without human intervention). It doesn't do anything at all until a user clicks the "search" button.

Nonsense. You are taking the response from the websites and extracting data from it, discarding the site's markup and displaying only the desired data in your own format. That is the very definition of web scraping. Granted, this only occurs every time a user hits the search button, unlike plenty of other scraping applications that collect far more data in a more automated/repetitive fashion. But it is most certainly scraping nonetheless.

KVS can protest all he wants but this is at best a grey area of law. There have been quite a number of screen scraping legal cases over the last few years. Some are detailed here. Note that in every one of the airline-data-related cases the :rolleyes:ffending party agreed to stop or was forced to do so. KVS knows this, which is why he hides. It's harder to be served a cease and desist order when nobody knows where you are.

This is semantics. The robots don't crawl until someone instructs them to following your logic. KVS is performing multiple user actions per search and dozens in the case of "power search" with the click of one button. One could call it a glorified macro, but the end result it the same, one human click is doing well above and beyond with http requests regarding what one human click could do otherwise.

Winner. Potential legal ramifications if it is ever admitted publicly, so it won't be. Which results in canned / spotty responses to the softballs and blatantly ignoring the hardballs.

What is really genius about the who operation is that you(!) are the guilty party because it is coming from your IP with your webrequests (as compared to EF or other bloggers apps). The win-win is it doesn't require hosting and bandwidth.

A User Agent string is chosen by the the creator(s) of a web browser, taking into consideration compatibility and other factors, described in the previously-linked article.

Users, who are actively web browsing are "actively generating [web] server requests", by definition.

Indeed, so far no robots have applied for a KVS Tool Membership, so we do believe that all current KVS Tool users are, in fact, humans.

From http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots_exclusion_standard:
One could also call it Greasemonkey, Tampermonkey, Scriptify, etc., but this won't turn a browser into a scraper, or a human into a robot.

Actually, that is the very definition of a web browser, which renders the HTML markup in accordance with its technical capabilities (e.g. graphical or text-only), installed extensions (e.g. ......., NoScript) and user preferences (e.g. images/style sheets/fonts/colors).

A web browser does not "collect" any data -- it renders the web page from the HTML format and displays it in a human-readable form (as described above).

The current Engine does not support time input, so that field is currently not being displayed to avoid confusion.

Regular Availability is currently accessible via the KVS Tool Mobile Companion.

Excellent point evasion.

Web browsers are generating requests made available by the sites they are browsing (clicking on links). My point is KVS was generating post requests that were not available to any user browsing p0soshok. Clearly generating custom post requests is something a web browser can't do by definition, because it is browsing what is available, not constructing custom requests of which it should have no knowledge of based on available public information on the website / html - this is a program.

Those are not browsers. Those are scripts/applications that can be used to scrape, amongst other things, which is identical to what KVS is doing.

I am rather disappointed with KVS Tools.

I just renew my Diamond for another year. And there is no warning that I will not get the same services that I have enjoyed for the past 3 years!!!

My requirement is very simple, I just need to check flight availability and timetable. This is the main reason I DO pay for the service.

Now I cannot do this anymore. Well, KVS may argue that I can do it via mobile apps, but this is very hard to read and use.

Should I know that I can no longer get the information needed, why I need to spend USD75 for it.

It seems to me all along the information provided were not from the legitimate sources but I was made to believe that it was, hence I need to pay for it....

I think the pages from the last days (or week(s)?) are all about one topic, whether its an appropiate business model (or not) from the creator of KVS to "scrape" / send specific http requests / transform the user inputs into http code / or whatever you want to call it into code and get the exact responses from certain free data providers.
Most users here have realized that it might be a grey area and that by a legal standpoint its not so easy to answer. Unless we have a lawyer here among the FT folks its more like "I'm saying this, you are saying that" back and forth.

In short,
I think we can end the debate whether its legitimite or not how KVS gets the data, users clearly stated their points here and KVS responded, so unless someone wants to press charges, we are good :D

But @KVS, let me be clear, if it is the case (I'm not saying it is) you are creating a product that allows users to break the terms and conditions of web / data / ... providers you MUST inform the users that they are breaking the law by using your tool, otherwise you are breaking the law!

We have quite a few, working in many different fields and jurisdictions. But there's no reason to expect any of them to bring their professional expertise to this thread.

Did he? Where?

Many products allow me to break the law or circumvent commercial T&Cs. We all own equipment that could be used to break into homes or cause bodily harm.

What's pernicious about the KVS 'tool' is that it does dodgy things behind the scenes without its paying customers knowing (unless they follow this thread, or other similar discussions).

Is anyone else getting basically useless fare information? When I search it does show a bunch of fares, but it doesn't show the fare bases. You have to click on one randomly and look up the fare rules, after which it'll display the fare code. In other words, it's impossible to know what kind of fare you're looking at before clicking on it, but in two searches (one Canada - Mexico, one Canada - Germany) all it shows were Y fares anyway.

I am Diamond however availibility i am una to search....

Interestingly, my version of the tool (downloaded the latest earlier today) seems to say that it is "KVS Availability Tool."

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...re9271-kvs.jpg

So ....
 

Mr. KVS,

I have been a Diamond member for many years and now find this tool to be completely useless.

I am not going to use the Mobile Companion as it is clunky at best.

I have not seen one post from you offering a gesture and/or solution to your PAYING customers.

It appears this tool is up a creek without a certain implement.

Please advise me if I am wrong.

Yep, it's garbage. At first I thought it was validating (enforcing adv purchase, min/max duration, fare class availability) but I've ruled that out.

Next mole up?

_____

Corrections:
I messed up assuming rubles but is dinari - fares seem ok.
Does not appear to be validating fares.
As you mention you can send the additional query to get the fare basis. Why this isn't done automatically is interesting, maybe a web browser has limitations?
Appears the routing rules is now not going to KVS but to [redacted], which ironically also isn't working.

No Timetable / only early flights?
 

Sorry if I'm re-posting an earlier question. When i try to do a simple "Timetable" search, for example SFO-ORD, the KVS Tool only shows me the earlier flights in the day, nothing later. Doesn't matter if I change the "Time" field, I still get only the earlier flights in the day.

There are plenty of flights from San Francisco to Chicago departing after 6-10 AM Pacific. Why are they not showing up?

I am with you on this. Same feeling.

I am very shock on this. I have been paying KVS for the past 3 years not knowingly that I have "crack" something, until he sent me the instruction on how to get GTC account.

I was so shock that I have to "crack" something to gain access for some tools that I have been paying for it.

This is like paying for a software and later on the creator tells me that I need to hack something so I can properly use for it :(

We think so too.

Could you please clarify what exactly do you mean by "hard to read and use" / "clunky"?

Indeed.

Which Rule(s) do you believe are not being validated?

All Fare & Routing Rules options continue to function normally.

The [Fares/GOL] Engine (which is currently in Beta) lists the ~40 lowest published Fares for the requested route (and carrier, if specified).

To retrieve the Fare Basis Code for a Fare you need to double-click the desired Fare Item(s).

It is a known issue with the [Timetable] Engine, which we are currently looking into.

In the meantime, please specify carrier preference(s) to narrow the results.

Please contact us via http://Contact.KVSTool.com/

Fare Method: Not working for domestic fares. It also is not finding the lowest available fare.

Routing Rules: "The system was unable to locate a matching fare" for every fare I would describe as not working.

Validated as in ensuring departure date fits within effective window, duration is longer than minimum stay require yet shorter than maximum, and that the fare class of the fare basis is available on the given day and today's date would meet advance purchase requirements. Doing that is actually undesirable as it filters results.

Can anyone tell me the current loads on DL123 in Nov, 10 2014?

If this is not the right place to ask, please move my question to the right place. I know there is a specific thread for these requests on LH but I could not find one for DL.

Thanks!

It is currently J1 C1 D1 I0 Z0 Y9 B9 M9 S9 H9 Q9 K9 L9 U9 T9 X9 V9 E9

Which version of KVS allows you to get that information?

Yes. Let's draw a line under that one.

The "KVS Availability Tool" only works properly on a sporadic basis, and only to the extent that KVS can find new ways* for it to steal data.

----------------------------------------------------------
* Ways to steal data are also known as "Engines" and "Methods", with upper case initials because this helps the "Tool" sound important.

Mobile companion ofcourse!

Suggestion
As the KVS Availability Tool purports to be a "Specialized Web Browser application", can the URL/domain used for each type of search be clearly shown before users are required to click 'Go' rather than an obfuscated/truncated code such as 'Availability/FS'?

That way users know the website(s) they will access and have a chance to confirm (if they wish) that they are meeting any 'User Agreement' or T&C's of that website.

Alternatively, a popup of the terms of the website(s) they are accessing through their 'Specialized Web Browser application'. Just as you request users to "Please review the terms of the KVS Tool User Agreement that you have accepted when installing the KVS Tool."