What does the following KVS error mean?

KVS Diamond, Version 7.5.2

I receive the error when doing a PowerSearch using the BA Search Tool. Can't find the error on the FAQ.

BA sometimes prompts with a captcha. Don't know if KVS copes with that when it's scraping ba.com.

KVS shows the image box with a pop up for you to enter. It's recapcha so good luck beating it (as compared to lifemiles). Now if KVS could make a capcha breaker we would be set. Frustrating because only BA shows LAN availability and QF (which is the "OW" method scrapper)shows phantom Iberia space.

It's been that way for maybe 2 months. Threshold appears to be10+searches (I haven't counted) in a compressed time. Takes about 24 hours to reset and is tracked by username(as compared to session or cookies). These are rough numbers that I haven't verified but just my general impression.

KVS Availability Tool
 

I'm also a diamond donor. And like A_lee I had neutral opinion of KVS until recently.

My opinion on KVS turned when they started asking users to create illegitimate user accounts so that we can continue making donations to KVS. What KVS should have done is change their business model instead. The whack a mole model is not a sustainable business model.

Yup- asking users to create those accounts was stepping over a line and starts to raise ethical and legal issues around hacking. In the past, I tolerated the seeming game of whack-a-mole that KVS was playing. Now that all the leaks are being plugged, it might be game over for that model. I've got about 1-2 days of waiting left and then am off to find a new tool.

We did not "ask" our users to do anything. For those users, who have contacted us, inquiring as to the requirements for browsing a particular website, we provided a Google search link, as a courtesy.

Because some of us would already have had GTC accounts?

Or even known what GTC was?

Indeed, some Members already did have their own.

For the past 10 years, the fact that the KVS Tool is a Specialized Web Browser (as well as other related facts) have been plainly stated in the [User Agreement] that each and every potential, new or existing Member has to agree to before being able to install or upgrade the KVS Tool.

While such "reassurance" may, indeed, be helpful, it would be conceptually inappropriate and impossible for any Web Browser creator to make one.

This would be analogous to Microsoft making "assurances" regarding the Internet Explorer (and all the potential web sites that its users browse) or the Mozilla Foundation regarding Firefox.

Welcome to FT!

Please clarify what type(s) of Availability and Upgrades you are looking for via http://Contact.KVSTool.com/

That's new information. Previously people reading here would have formed the impression that KVS was making credentials available to customers who asked him:

I think everyone would appreciate less focus on the losing argument and more focus on resolving the holes in KVS that didn't exist when they paid for it, namely fares and availability.

But to your analogy, KVS has a very small fixed set of inputs (predefined "methods", dates, airlines, IATA cities, etc). So the output and scope of KVS is indeed finite and fixed, thus making it neither inappropriate nor impossible to provide details on that small space which is 100% controlled by the programmer.

Was kindly upgraded to diamond, so problem solved.

Only struggling to get the right username and password for the mobile companion.

This error message indicates a technical and, likely, transient error with the [Awards/BA-OneWorld] Engine itself.

What are you search parameters?

Indeed, the KVS Tool does support the CAPTCHA requests that the [Awards/BA] Engine may occasionally present, when a user exceeds its velocity limits.

What you all guys tend to forget is that KVS is getting the data from somewhere. How they get it (paying for it vs. scraping it) is a different story, but you all must know that from where the data comes from can change from time to time.

Has anyone ever contacted Sabre (getthere) or a big data provider yourself? Cause then you would now how much 1 request (pull fare rules, pull base fare names, ...) really costs and there would be NO WAY of getting that data through kvs with such a low yearly fee!
Award search of course is a total different story, cause everyone is using their own credentials and pulling the data directly from the airline BUT if KVS would have to get the data directly from the airline (which would be pretty impossible) it would also cost MUCH more.
Try to contact Star Alliance and ask for an api to get all their award availability for "free" or a yearly fee of <200$, you will fail ;)

So KVS needs to get the data from free sources. Of course nothing onine is free, so KVS has to use grey areas to get the fare / availability data from somewhere without paying for it cause then you would all go bankcrupt by the heavy membership fees ;)
So the only possible way is screenscraping.
Of course websites like flightstats doesn't like it that their data gets pulled automatically cause they also have to pay fees for providing that data.
Long story short, the source changes from time to time where the data comes from and at some point its possible that there is no way of getting the fare data anymore and then we would have to accept it.

ExpertFlyer does..

^^

Other tools manage it just fine for a monthly price in the same ballpark.

KVS is pulling the fares from somewhere that is paying for Sabre, someone is subsidising your use of KVS, most likely unknowingly.

Or you could subscribe to alternative systems that get the data legitimately and charge a similar figure, and doesn't make a profit off reselling what others are giving for free.

It doesn't cost a lot to get flight availability, because flightstats were happy providing it for the limited income of showing a few adverts. Another tool on this forum gets you prices, seating charts, etc. etc from GDS for a similar price to KVS. KVS rather pocket your money themselves while conning many people into believing they're paying for legitimate sources of data (not ones where you have to sign up and break terms of use of sites)

Don't know how much GDS costs per request, but Timatic has a price list:http://www.timaticweb2.com/terms
13 eurocents per query or so.

We have just sent you another copy via e-mail -- please check your Inbox and the Junk/Spam folders.

But KVS has an interface advantage in my opinion (until larger scale is required, then it sucks too).

Solution? KVS scrapes EF.

I'll add fares is down again.
It was there in 7.5.
We were told it would be fixed quickly.
7.6 came out and it was working for an hour
7.6.1 is is gone again with no mention.

Technically KVS isn't pulling anything (besides routing rules and a couple other obscure methods). You are pulling it directly to your computer, so depending on your perspective you are the guilty party.

Now that said, it isn't as simple as getting a legitimate license and access. It would then need to be hosted which I am guessing KVS has nowhere near the server capacity to support considering the routing rules search bombs out 90% of the time and that does route to KVS servers.

+1

EF told me that they oppose to this idea. But I really don't mind paying for both EF and KVS to get the legit data from EF but the better interface of KVS.

A lot of us wouldn't mind paying for both again, as we did in the past, if KVS did what it (sometimes) does reliably and without requiring users to tap into dodgy data sources.

The routing rules search seems to be rate limited. Once every 60 seconds or so. Other than that, it seems to work fine for me.

That goes to KVS's server and its data source is obscured. Perhaps KVS has to pay for it and that's why it's rate limited...

Usually its below 5 cents through the GDS but even then its expensive.

Honestly, I don't know how EF does it, cause their membership fee is also really low but they must request a TON of data from their data provider.

I am quite frustrated with the newer version of KVS. I just updated to 7.6.1 and now I cannot even check the availability as it requires GTC credentials and I have no idea how to set it up.


I was working fine when I was upgraded to 7.5.0.

I was paying USD75 for Diamond membership and I cannot use the system now. Not really sure what I am paying for then :(

Today my diamond "contribution" finished.

Unfortunately, due to abusive behavior and actions of certain Members, I am no longer able to provide the 75 USD contribution.

Spot on 60 second observation, same for MCT.

The irony of "here is a tool to scrape other unknowning websites, pound away, even in parallel if you like, oh you want something for my website, you'll have to wait" is priceless.

whate are GTC credentials and how can I set up those to furtehr use the KVS Tool?
any help appreciated

To make it sure, either get GTC credentials yourself by being part of an institution, like a university or a travel business that offers that (no regular person on earth has that access thou ;)
or try to "steal" GTC credentials from someone else.

You won't get GTC credentials from KVS since its an 3rd party service.

But has anyone realized the "fare" tab is gone now?!?
I know it scraped the data from a .ru website, I just checked, they are still live and running, don't know why kVS is not scraping their website anymore and the fare pulling from farecompare that was introduced into 7.6 is gone already after a day or so.

So a regular user who doesn't have GTC credentials (lucky me I got some) will have no access to availability and fares anymore? Thats like one of the key features :D
But hey, we got the timetable feature now, still not sure what I would need that for thou ;)


@KVS
I think you should be a bit more open in your changelogs, as you can clearly see many of your long time members are upset about the way the information we get from you.
So why not clearly say in the changelog (of course if thats the case)
"I was pulling the data for free from flightstats and they stopped releasing that data for free so I removed that feature from the KVS tool"
and
"I was using a russian OTA to get the basefares and they (asked me to) stopp(ed) using their data, so I had to remove it" instead of just removing it and not explaining why.
Its not like its a secret where the data for the kvs tool comes from, everyone can quickly find it out with 3rd party apps.

But a bit more transparency would help the cause imo :)

Which Russian site gives the fares out?

Is the title "KVS Availability Tool" now a misnomer?

I don't think mentioning the name of the ru OTA publicly will help us here / the chance of ever getting it scraped again via KVS

The current correct name would be KVS Award availability Tool ;)

Please review the terms of the KVS Tool User Agreement that you have accepted when installing the KVS Tool.

Don't suppose you accepted any of the Ts and Cs of the sites you scrape?

e.g. "You must not permit access to or use of this website or any of the Material on or obtained from this website to any commercial entity or other organisation providing a service to the public." ?