Flash Drive v. Hard Drive For New Laptop
Jan 31, 2011, 10:56 am
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,781
Considering the OP is talking about a Sony, I'd look at what's involved in swapping. $650 is only marginally above market for a 256 GB SSD, and may be WELL WORTH THE PRICE to have it installed.
The only problem with it is that at current costs and my upgrade rate, I'd expect a 160gb+ SSD to last through more than one machine.
Jan 31, 2011, 11:53 am
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
Fry's isn't exactly the best for deals. Most laptops still carry a warranty after user-serviceable upgrades.
Considering I can buy a 240GB SSD drive for $400 here, I would call an extra $250 is a rip-off.
Considering I can buy a 240GB SSD drive for $400 here, I would call an extra $250 is a rip-off.
Jan 31, 2011, 12:07 pm
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Department of Homeland Sincerity
Programs: WN Platinum
Posts: 12,085
I use a 500gb hard drive that I bought a couple of years ago for $80. There is no way on earth I can justify paying 10X that much (or more) for a SSD.
Performance *might* be faster on SSD, but it really depends on what you're doing. There are a lot of bottlenecks that can cause performance issues, and the hard drive might be one of a very small factor.
For most budget minded / value minded folks, SSDs are still not practical or realistic.
My laptop with a 500gb 5400rpm (not even 7200rpm) hard drive, performance is good enough for what I do most of the day - office documents, web browsing, youtube, etc etc.
For data reliability, I use the savings from buying a SSD to set up my own NAS, and back up my data regularly to prevent any worries about losing data. Heck for the amount of money you save, you can buy an extra laptop!!
Performance *might* be faster on SSD, but it really depends on what you're doing. There are a lot of bottlenecks that can cause performance issues, and the hard drive might be one of a very small factor.
For most budget minded / value minded folks, SSDs are still not practical or realistic.
My laptop with a 500gb 5400rpm (not even 7200rpm) hard drive, performance is good enough for what I do most of the day - office documents, web browsing, youtube, etc etc.
For data reliability, I use the savings from buying a SSD to set up my own NAS, and back up my data regularly to prevent any worries about losing data. Heck for the amount of money you save, you can buy an extra laptop!!
Jan 31, 2011, 1:07 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York City/NY22
Programs: AA Platinum 2.3MM (Lifetime PLT)
Posts: 5,285
What hassle? Most Windows machines come out of the box with manufacturer-provided crapware; I've not worked with Sony in while, but in the past, they've been more guilty than most of that. Reinstalling a clean copy of Windows is, for many of us, the first step to using a new machine regardless of whether we're using the original disks.
Fresh Start
Fresh Start provides a basic computing environment where specific VAIO® applications (like VAIO® Media Gallery and VAIO Picture Motion Browser), trial software and games are removed from your unit prior to shipment. Any additional software applications added to your notebook will not be affected by this option.
Fresh Start provides a basic computing environment where specific VAIO® applications (like VAIO® Media Gallery and VAIO Picture Motion Browser), trial software and games are removed from your unit prior to shipment. Any additional software applications added to your notebook will not be affected by this option.
Depends on the drive. Not all SSDs are equal--check the performance ratings. Make sure both the drive and the OS support the TRIM command or you'll find your machine slowing down over time. (I know XP doesn't support TRIM, 7 does, I don't know about Vista, I have no idea on Macs.)
Jan 31, 2011, 1:09 pm
#36
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York City/NY22
Programs: AA Platinum 2.3MM (Lifetime PLT)
Posts: 5,285
Boy, you can say that again. I've changed out hard drives in Dells and Lenovos for years and am used to removing a screw, sliding out a tray, changing the drive. Recently a friend asked me to help him change out his laptop hard drive and I said, "No problem." He brought over a Sony. After much looking at the laptop and online, I finally found instructions that involved removing the screen, the keyboard, darn near disassembling the entire box before you could remove the hard drive. Never again.
Jan 31, 2011, 2:34 pm
#37
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: on the Llano Estacado
Posts: 2,652
I don't remember the exact model. It was a VAIO A-series, I think. I looked for the YouTube video that had guided me, couldn't find the exact one. Looks like most Sonys require removal of all the bottom screws, then remove the keyboard, then take the HD out from the top of the opened laptop.
Jan 31, 2011, 3:05 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Programs: AA Gold, Marriott Plat
Posts: 456
Speed is a great advantage, if you need it.
Disadvantages are price and limited write cycles. How limited, I do not know yet. But on average, an USB flash drive will last about two years until you start to have problems.
For a desktop, I recommend Solid state for operating system and programs and traditional hard drives for data storage.
For laptop, toss up. But remember, had a solid backup plan. For $50 a year, carbonite rocks!
Disadvantages are price and limited write cycles. How limited, I do not know yet. But on average, an USB flash drive will last about two years until you start to have problems.
For a desktop, I recommend Solid state for operating system and programs and traditional hard drives for data storage.
For laptop, toss up. But remember, had a solid backup plan. For $50 a year, carbonite rocks!
Jan 31, 2011, 3:25 pm
#39
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: PDX (wish I was in HNL)
Programs: Platinum
Posts: 1,687
Boy, you can say that again. I've changed out hard drives in Dells and Lenovos for years and am used to removing a screw, sliding out a tray, changing the drive. Recently a friend asked me to help him change out his laptop hard drive and I said, "No problem." He brought over a Sony. After much looking at the laptop and online, I finally found instructions that involved removing the screen, the keyboard, darn near disassembling the entire box before you could remove the hard drive. Never again.
Considering the OP is talking about a Sony, I'd look at what's involved in swapping. $650 is only marginally above market for a 256 GB SSD, and may be WELL WORTH THE PRICE to have it installed.
Considering the OP is talking about a Sony, I'd look at what's involved in swapping. $650 is only marginally above market for a 256 GB SSD, and may be WELL WORTH THE PRICE to have it installed.
Jan 31, 2011, 7:34 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,781
Most SSD manufacturers have userspace tools you can run that support TRIM on XP and Vista.
Also, some manufacturers have built things into the drive firmware to improve performance with XP/Vista without those tools. Reports vary on how effective they are.
Linux supports TRIM only on newer kernels and filesystems (notably ext4.)
An 80gb SSD from some manufacturers is less than twice that much money; the benchmark Intel model (no longer the best, by any means) is about $170.
From the Sony website (can't find a way to directly link to this paragraph):
Fresh Start
Fresh Start provides a basic computing environment where specific VAIO® applications (like VAIO® Media Gallery and VAIO Picture Motion Browser), trial software and games are removed from your unit prior to shipment. Any additional software applications added to your notebook will not be affected by this option.
Fresh Start provides a basic computing environment where specific VAIO® applications (like VAIO® Media Gallery and VAIO Picture Motion Browser), trial software and games are removed from your unit prior to shipment. Any additional software applications added to your notebook will not be affected by this option.
Under an incredibly write-heavy workload -- for example, what are in essence supercomputing applications -- I've heard stories of SSDs failing a lot faster than that: if you are writing terabytes of new data to disk every day, SSDs are either (A) not for you, or (B) a consumable. Most people write no more than a few gigabytes of new data per day.)
For a desktop, I recommend Solid state for operating system and programs and traditional hard drives for data storage.
Where the random-access performance of SSDs is valuable enough on a desktop (certain sorts of applications, including software development - our developer desktops now come with an SSD) you typically need to include those applications' data (eg your source code and your IDE caches) on the SSD as well as just the applications and OS.
Jan 31, 2011, 7:49 pm
#41
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York City/NY22
Programs: AA Platinum 2.3MM (Lifetime PLT)
Posts: 5,285
I don't remember the exact model. It was a VAIO A-series, I think. I looked for the YouTube video that had guided me, couldn't find the exact one. Looks like most Sonys require removal of all the bottom screws, then remove the keyboard, then take the HD out from the top of the opened laptop.
Not as far as I can tell.
Jan 31, 2011, 8:14 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
The Achilles heel of SSDs is their terrible erase performance. They only can write fast if they are writing to a block (and their blocks are far bigger than a sector) that is completely zeroed.
What the TRIM command does is allows the OS to tell the drive what space can be zeroed even though it's part of the visible space. Without this the drive will in time get slow due to the need to erase blocks before writing. (This is *PARTIALLY* overcome by having a declared size smaller than the real size but TRIM does a far better job of handling this.)
What the TRIM command does is allows the OS to tell the drive what space can be zeroed even though it's part of the visible space. Without this the drive will in time get slow due to the need to erase blocks before writing. (This is *PARTIALLY* overcome by having a declared size smaller than the real size but TRIM does a far better job of handling this.)
Jan 31, 2011, 8:18 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
Speed is a great advantage, if you need it.
Disadvantages are price and limited write cycles. How limited, I do not know yet. But on average, an USB flash drive will last about two years until you start to have problems.
For a desktop, I recommend Solid state for operating system and programs and traditional hard drives for data storage.
For laptop, toss up. But remember, had a solid backup plan. For $50 a year, carbonite rocks!
Disadvantages are price and limited write cycles. How limited, I do not know yet. But on average, an USB flash drive will last about two years until you start to have problems.
For a desktop, I recommend Solid state for operating system and programs and traditional hard drives for data storage.
For laptop, toss up. But remember, had a solid backup plan. For $50 a year, carbonite rocks!
With a flash drive some blocks (directories in particular) get written far more than the rest of the drive and when one burns out the drive has had it.
With a SSD, though, the controller will sometimes move things around so that heavily-used directory block gets something put on it that almost never gets written. (Think of anything in Program Files for example.) Also, when a block actually does burn out the drive swaps in a spare and the user never knows it. Only when there are no more spares does the problem actually show up.
If the numbers are to be believed this should allow a SSD to have a multi-decade lifespan no matter how abused.
Jan 31, 2011, 8:21 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
Where the random-access performance of SSDs is valuable enough on a desktop (certain sorts of applications, including software development - our developer desktops now come with an SSD) you typically need to include those applications' data (eg your source code and your IDE caches) on the SSD as well as just the applications and OS.