beachmouse

And if you don't need a product right away, sometimes it's worth it to take note of it and wait until there's a sale on manufacturer's refurbs or it getting discounted ahead of the new model coming out. Spousal Unit buys a fair amount of factory refurb camera and computer gear and hasn't had a problem with that yet.

Wild_Penguin

I have a D3200. It's a great camera for the price! And now that they have a D3300. You can pick up a whole starter kit for under $500 now.

Madone59

Samsung Galaxy camera! Under $500, takes fantastic sunset photos! See:

DonCarpenter

If the camera doesn't have at least an APS-C sensor, your phone will likely be just as good.

abmj-jr

Sorry but this is absolute crap!

DonCarpenter

The sensor isn't that much larger in most point and shoots. Sensor size is EVERYTHING when it comes to smaller format cameras.

And there are plenty of compact point and shoot cameras that have an APS-C sensor now. No reason not to get one.

chx1975

There's a lot more to a camera than the sensor size. There's a huge gamut of cameras between say an iPhone and a Ricoh GR (perhaps the smallest, cheapest APS-C) and you can't just say all of them are useless. If we want to get hung up on the sensor/pixel size, my RX 100 has 2.4 microns size pixels, that's already 60% more than the iPhone pixels. And, of course, there's zoom lenses, optical SteadyShot and whatnot.

abmj-jr

What sensor isn't?

No, sensor size is NOT everything.

I will stack the IQ of both of my m4/3 cameras, which are not much larger than a point-and-shoot, against any APS.C in the line-up, aside from the top of the line pro models that come in at a far higher price point. And both the EM5 and the PM2 beat every camera phone there is.

My point, there is a lot more to camera quality and suitability for a given purpose than sensor size.

richiepimpam

I bought a Go Pro Hero 4. and for sunsets has worked perfectly. I suggest to for easy cameras which settings are already set for each thing. Plus, this camera has great frames per second when is about filming.

DonCarpenter

Actually a M4/3 sensor is quite a bit larger than most point and shoots. And an APS-C sensor of the same generation will ALWAYS beat an M4/3 sensor. Just like a full frame will always beat an APS-C.

abmj-jr

Nope. Flat absolutes are often logic killers in technical discussions. If you had said "almost always" or "usually" or something similar, I'd probably agree but that "always" makes the above untrue. Without comparisons of pixel size and density and sensor design, which are way beyond the scope of this thread, you just can't make that case.

Done with this.

DonCarpenter

Of course you are. You backed yourself into a corner with the M4/3 stuff.

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings

Highest 4/3 sensor camera has a 74. That's the equivalent of a three generation old APS-C sensor. The highest APS-C is 84, which is two generations behind full format. That's why "of the same generation" was in bold and "always" was in caps. Because the data supports that claim.

For most peoples' purposes, a M4/3 camera is just fine. For most peoples' purposes, a PHONE is just fine. But they're not the same.

lhgreengrd1

Except that DxOMark is hardly the be all and end all in evaluating cameras. They test very specific things about the sensor, at the exclusion of a whole boatload of stuff that makes a camera functional as a camera - such as exposure accuracy, focus performance, lens performance, ergonomics, etc. etc. Even what DxOMark purports to be it's lens tests are basically dominated by sensor resolution, rather than actual lens characteristics that matter a lot, such as flaring, distortion characteristics, coma, etc.

The difference between having a sensor with a DxOMark score of 74 and one of 90 might actually matter in maybe 5% of photographic situations, but stuff like ergonomics and focus performance and metering accuracy matters almost all the time.

Oh, and BTW, sunsets are not one of those 5% situations.

And a camera that you have with you when a photo opportunity presents itself, because it's convenient to carry, will ALWAYS take a better photo than a big heavy camera with the best sensor money can buy, if you left that camera with the great sensor at home because of it's bulk.

chx1975

Let me also add that a camera with a lens stabilizer will run circles around the non stabilized camera in the phone in the hands of an amateur. No matter how good your sensor is if all you get is a blur. Potential is one thing... actual pictures another.

jec6613

Heh, not quite so simple. Within the same generation, with the same resolution, from the same manufacturer, I would buy, but just compare the Canon and the Sony sensors and you'll see that Sony APS-C sensors are several generations ahead of Canon full frame sensors in dynamic range. The picture is far more complicated than it appears.

Anyway, aside from that, although the Sony has already been purchased (and it's quite a nice camera, too!) for those looking in the future, check out the Nikon 1 line. There's always a few models sub-$500, and they're compact and easy to travel with, plus the autofocus is as fast as a D3x00 series DSLR, and the interchangeable lenses give versatility without too much size creep. My fianc� and best friend both ended up with them for that reason - in between a phone and DSLR in quality (almost exactly in the middle, from what I've seen) and small to travel with.

For myself, I have a D7100 as my primary body when weight isn't a concern, and a D5100 for when I want to go light. The D5100 kit, which has plastic kit lenses with it, is actually lighter than most Sony mirrorless setups when lenses and everything are taken into account. It's also bulkier, as that mirror takes up space, and the lenses need to take into account the flange focal distance, but the compatibility with the rest of my Nikon stuff makes it well worth it.