Redeeming those hard earned miles
Jan 5, 2001, 12:05 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Some where in the Mountains
Posts: 5,444
Redeeming those hard earned miles
A link to MSNBC article on redeeming FF miles for awards. What most of us, including myself have experienced in the past.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/510691.asp?0nm=N1AO
[This message has been edited by toadman (edited 01-10-2001).]
http://www.msnbc.com/news/510691.asp?0nm=N1AO
[This message has been edited by toadman (edited 01-10-2001).]
Jan 6, 2001, 12:27 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2000
Location: WAS
Posts: 1,069
It almost takes effort to spend $14,250 just to earn a free domestic ticket (unless you were only earning miles from a CC and whatever you bought to earn the miles had no value other than the miles).
Anyway, domestic awards start out at 20k on some airlines for low season.
Obviously the guy is a bit "choosy" about the data he picks to make his points.
(edited for clarity)
[This message has been edited by yonatan (edited 01-06-2001).]
Anyway, domestic awards start out at 20k on some airlines for low season.
Obviously the guy is a bit "choosy" about the data he picks to make his points.
(edited for clarity)
[This message has been edited by yonatan (edited 01-06-2001).]
Jan 6, 2001, 6:23 pm
#3
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1.050MM, PersonalCar 0.275MM
Posts: 1,718
Yeah, some of the numbers in the article seem pretty bogus. If the author is correct and 47% of miles are earned on the ground (through stuff like C/C bonus programs), $11,750 in spending sounds scary but as long as it isn't additional spending just to earn the miles, so what? And just because $11,750 is a large chunk of money doesn't say anything about whether it is a wiser decision to spend those miles on upgrades or on an award ticket, as the author tries to claim.
As for the average minimum of $2,500 to fly the 13,250 miles balance for a domestic 48 states award, first of all, average minimum seems to me a contradiction in terms. Second, the travelers who actually needed to fly to their destinations while earning those 13,250 miles got to where they needed to go, right? Whereas the travelers who are crazy enough to do mileage runs
most certainly didn't spend $2,500 to earn 13,250 miles. My one and only mileage run to date will have netted 13,974 miles (plus upgrade certificates and status for calendar year 2001) once all the bonuses post, and all for a mere $130. ($105 if I get to count the $25 off certificate I used when I ticketed this mileage run.)
Also, as far as flying standby on a frequent flier ticket... no gate agent I've ever talked to said anything about there being a difference between a paper ticket and an electronic ticket when it came to flying standby on the same airline on the same day. Perhaps it may be strictly against the rules, but gate agents certainly have let me fly standby on the same day on an award ticket that was an e-ticket and not a paper ticket. When changing airlines, having a paper ticket vs. e-ticket matters more, but when staying on the same airline, there doesn't seem to be much practical difference.
As for the average minimum of $2,500 to fly the 13,250 miles balance for a domestic 48 states award, first of all, average minimum seems to me a contradiction in terms. Second, the travelers who actually needed to fly to their destinations while earning those 13,250 miles got to where they needed to go, right? Whereas the travelers who are crazy enough to do mileage runs
most certainly didn't spend $2,500 to earn 13,250 miles. My one and only mileage run to date will have netted 13,974 miles (plus upgrade certificates and status for calendar year 2001) once all the bonuses post, and all for a mere $130. ($105 if I get to count the $25 off certificate I used when I ticketed this mileage run.)Also, as far as flying standby on a frequent flier ticket... no gate agent I've ever talked to said anything about there being a difference between a paper ticket and an electronic ticket when it came to flying standby on the same airline on the same day. Perhaps it may be strictly against the rules, but gate agents certainly have let me fly standby on the same day on an award ticket that was an e-ticket and not a paper ticket. When changing airlines, having a paper ticket vs. e-ticket matters more, but when staying on the same airline, there doesn't seem to be much practical difference.
Jan 6, 2001, 9:33 pm
#5
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Join Date: May 1998
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There are several other crocks in it. For example, he equates "on the ground" miles totally to credit card spending. I'd guess that the majority come from other things: car rentals, hotel stays, flowers, long distance phone service, etc. These add up much faster than CC purchases.
He also ignores the effect of bonuses on the amount of flying needed to earn miles. Since a hefty % of all flying is done by elite FF members, even if they're a small % of all individual passengers, the impact of elite and other bonuses on how long it takes to earn an award is significant.
Finally, while YMMV, he exaggerates the difficulty of claiming an award. On Dec. 31, a friend and I decided that it would be nice if she visited me in Boston on Jan. 4. Within a few hours she had a seat on the first Midway non-stop out of Raleigh in the am and another on the last one back that evening, all for 20,000 AA miles. Since this was last-minute travel without a Saturday night stay, the ticket would have cost $1,460. I know it can be difficult to get some awards, but it's far from the impossible task he makes it sound like.
His reasoning behind upgrading not being cost-effective is also not logical. I have to go from Boston to France next week. I can buy a discount economy ticket for $500 and upgrade the RT for 50,000 miles; buy Y fare for $2500 and upgrade for 20,000 miles; fly in paid business class for $7,500 or get a business class award for 90,000 miles. (All figures are approximate and for an AA non-stop.) It seems clear to me that one of the upgrade routes is the way to go if I don't want to spend that much time in an economy seat.
That said, three of his four closing suggestions (the exception, as noted above, is to get paper tickets) do make sense.
He also ignores the effect of bonuses on the amount of flying needed to earn miles. Since a hefty % of all flying is done by elite FF members, even if they're a small % of all individual passengers, the impact of elite and other bonuses on how long it takes to earn an award is significant.
Finally, while YMMV, he exaggerates the difficulty of claiming an award. On Dec. 31, a friend and I decided that it would be nice if she visited me in Boston on Jan. 4. Within a few hours she had a seat on the first Midway non-stop out of Raleigh in the am and another on the last one back that evening, all for 20,000 AA miles. Since this was last-minute travel without a Saturday night stay, the ticket would have cost $1,460. I know it can be difficult to get some awards, but it's far from the impossible task he makes it sound like.
His reasoning behind upgrading not being cost-effective is also not logical. I have to go from Boston to France next week. I can buy a discount economy ticket for $500 and upgrade the RT for 50,000 miles; buy Y fare for $2500 and upgrade for 20,000 miles; fly in paid business class for $7,500 or get a business class award for 90,000 miles. (All figures are approximate and for an AA non-stop.) It seems clear to me that one of the upgrade routes is the way to go if I don't want to spend that much time in an economy seat.
That said, three of his four closing suggestions (the exception, as noted above, is to get paper tickets) do make sense.
Jan 6, 2001, 11:03 pm
#6
In memoriam
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I'm perfectly happy if the public believes what Mr. Greenberg has to say. Of course, I have no vested interest in the public knowing what's really going on.
Jan 7, 2001, 11:30 am
#8
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Maybe Mr. Greenberg is the only one able to clarify this, but I thought he meant that if you had a paper frequent flyer ticket you could go standby ANYTIME, and if there were a available seat you would get on, NOT just same day as people are saying they have been able to do. Has anyone ever done this? If this IS the case, it certainly opens up possibilities, although risky. Also, personally, I feel the same way about using miles for upgrades. I'd rather have MORE trips in coach, then less trips is Business or First. Complimentary upgrades are another thing. Over Christimas, got upgraded to First, from ORD to LAX both ways. For people with more miles than they'll ever need, it may be another story.
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DtG
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DtG
Jan 8, 2001, 8:20 pm
#9
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 1999
Location: San Francisco UA1K; AA Gold
Posts: 937
To address two of dgordon's issues:
On most airlines you can fly standby any day with a FF ticket, whether it's electronic or paper (and the day isn't a blackout date). As long as you aren't changing the city pairs (including connections), it shouldn't be a problem. But if any of the airports involved change, you could be charged a fee to re-deposit the miles and issue a new ticket. That's probably not too likely, though, if the airports in question are co-terminal (such as flying SFO-EWR on a ticket that's SFO-JFK).
As for upgrades, it depends on your priorities. My sister who cashes in miles because she can't afford the $300 fare to visit my parents (the only route she ever flies) would go for the free trips. I'd rather go for the upgrades; on coast-to-coast domestic flights the issue is every sixth flight free (since 5 roundtrips garner about 25,000 miles) or every fourth upgraded (using 20,000 miles earned on the prior four flights, including the last upgraded one).
It all comes down to how important is cash vs. comfort. By Mr. Greenburg's logic, nobody should ever fly up front, whether paid or using miles, since coach is always cheaper.
On most airlines you can fly standby any day with a FF ticket, whether it's electronic or paper (and the day isn't a blackout date). As long as you aren't changing the city pairs (including connections), it shouldn't be a problem. But if any of the airports involved change, you could be charged a fee to re-deposit the miles and issue a new ticket. That's probably not too likely, though, if the airports in question are co-terminal (such as flying SFO-EWR on a ticket that's SFO-JFK).
As for upgrades, it depends on your priorities. My sister who cashes in miles because she can't afford the $300 fare to visit my parents (the only route she ever flies) would go for the free trips. I'd rather go for the upgrades; on coast-to-coast domestic flights the issue is every sixth flight free (since 5 roundtrips garner about 25,000 miles) or every fourth upgraded (using 20,000 miles earned on the prior four flights, including the last upgraded one).
It all comes down to how important is cash vs. comfort. By Mr. Greenburg's logic, nobody should ever fly up front, whether paid or using miles, since coach is always cheaper.