jrhmdtraum

rique

Do you have an infant? If not, your time is worthless.

azepine00

Usually you can but it really depends on size of air pocket, size of baby, how you hold them etc. We can thriw in some numbers here just for the sake of calculation...
On the other hand having a car seat doesnt usually mean a kid staying strapped in all the time - i often see them held by parents anyways...

I have nothing against using seats if you believe it makes things safer - just consider practical implications of taking one through airports. My kids are approaching 300k flown miles at age of 5 - we never encountered strong turbulence but they got hit in the face and head several times by shoulder bags of other pax rushing by...

jrhmdtraum

and I grew up never using a seat belt (were none) and with several cross country trips

kchoya

I've driven almost one million miles in cars and trucks. I've never been involved in a motor vehicle crash. Ergo, I don't need seat belts or air bags.

azepine00

This is a false analogy as there is data supporting use of car seats and seat belts in cars but there is no such data for use of car seats on airplanes.
And you missed (intentionally or not) the point of my post to begin with...

jrhmdtraum

jrhmdtraum

Anze

The restraint the FA sell is easy to carry - no lugging

There is enough anetotal data
You cannot hold a child if the plane hits an air pocket

I have seen in air flying babies and treated such i

But hey, it's your child and if you don't care if she gets injured, why should I. Save the money and go buy yourself some steaks

rjque

FAs don't sell restraints. At least, not any US airline I've used.

And the plural of anecdote is not data - no matter how many anecdotes you have. If you can't quantify the risk by pointing to actual data, then you cannot speak with any authority as to the actual risk.

And let's also define what we are talking about here. There appear to be two conversations happening:

1. People arguing that an infant is safer in a car seat than on a parent's lap. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. But rather than respond with data about how dangerous it actually is to fly with a lap child, people are resorting to emotional blackmail (i.e. "if you love your baby, you'll buy a seat").

2. People questioning the difference in safety between putting a toddler in a seat with a seat belt and lugging a car seat on board (or using CARES). How much more dangerous is it to put your toddler in the seat belt vs. a specialized restraint? Is one actually better than the other?

jrhmdtraum

1. The airlines and FTA don't keep data except for deaths or serious injuries. But if you look at # of severe air pockets and at least one flying lap child per incident ...

2. If it is your child and there is a finite risk, does the data matter?

3 infants don't "fit" in adult seat belts

And again, do you have or treat kids? If not - what does it matter to u

lg10

Regarding the above:

"2. If it is your child and there is a finite risk, does the data matter?"

Of course it does! There are risks in positively everything we do, and humans are notoriously bad at evaluating risk without actual data (and sometimes even with that data).

"3. infants don't 'fit' in adult seat belts"

Please don't conflate the issue - the previous poster was asking about toddlers (preschoolers?) and not infants. No one has adequately described for me what the data show for a toddler/preschooler sitting in a lap-belt on an airplane.

In fact, I don't even know the precise data in a car situation. I know that a lab-belt vs. NOTHING in the back seat, made a huge difference in child injury/fatality in the 1970s+. But for lap-to-shoulder and the lap-to-booster, I have not seen good data. I seem to recall one of the "Freakonomics" books diving into this and getting very controversial.

jrhmdtraum

rjque: The FA union used to sell them prior to toysrus, etc.

Toddlers are also safer.

The Canadians have already required appropriate restraints for kids/toddlers.

Auto lab belts with shoulder restraint resulted in hugh INCREASE in head injuries and deaths from same

rjque

Apparently you're not reading my posts in this thread. This is a waste of time unless someone else can show actual data to help me evaluate whether we are talking about a vaccine type risk or a car type risk.

BTW, the entire anti-vaccine movement is based on your second argument.

jrhmdtraum

You are wrong. There is data of vaccines benefit which outweighs the reports of harm.

For child restraints, there is proof by the laws of physics (impossible to hold) and enough reports that a statistical trial would be unethical

Enough said. You don't have a child nor treat them so why are you arguing - simply for the sake of it?

rjque

Like I said, you haven't read my posts. As I said above, I've lugged a carseat through an airport countless times, and no longer do so because there does not appear to be any data that it is worth the hassle and amount of attention it takes away from managing my toddler.

erik123

There is an 2011 FAA report that provides some clarity.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...int-update.pdf

In short: 3 deaths would have been prevented by the use of car seats/restraint in the period 1980-1994 - but none from 1994-2011.