MisterSelfish

Hmm - makes sense. I suppose the only issue in J is whether or not we're too far away to watch her while she's awake. Do most children at that age just want to be on your lap or immediately next to you?

At this point, it's hard for me not to imagine her wanting to be on either my wife or I for most of the trip, which would make the upgrade to J rather moot other than the 4-5 hours she would sleep.

What are other peoples' experiences traveling with toddlers in international business class?

DeepUnderground

On the layflat w/ divider type seats, there is a sweet spot between them being too young to care that they are in a carseat where they can't see mom and dad, and then being old enough to be scared of that fact. It took a lot of hyping the airplane ride for ours when she was 2 year old for her not to freak out at takeoff and landing without being able to see us very well. Thankfully now she's old enough not to care about anything other than loading up the next movie.

expatboy

Research the cabin design / seat layout ahead of booking. If you look on airlines such as CX, you'll find they use the herringbone layout, which while private, is impractical for those travelling with small children. We avoided those layouts for that reason. Airlines like BA (for example), where the seats are more traditionally next to one another, make for a more practical option. If they have to be in their own seat for taxi, takeoff and landing then you really want to be able to see them and hold their hand. Plus if they are not in a car seat (no idea if you would do this or not) then you need to be able to stop them wriggling out of the seatbelt.

We have chosen airlines and routings on this basis when travelling with our four kids when they were younger (from birth to now - youngest is 4, eldest is 9) and have never had a problem.

DeepUnderground

The new layout is fine. If you have a younger one that needs hands held, you can do that across the center pair of seats, while the older child sits across the isle where they can be seen relatively easily. They are not as bad as the older CX layout.

BA does get bonus points, however, perfect for a family of four in the center seats.

BeatCal

Go J and bring your car seat for her to sit in. While she may not "sleep" in it, it is much safer and more comfortable for her

Also (check with your care giver) give her Benadryl on the flight:
1. It will help clear her ears
2. A very safe "sleeping" aide for kids
BUT
give her some before you leave, in a small minority of kids, it makes them hyper instead of sleepy.

BeatCal

That is the most dangerous spot for her to be. If the plane hits an air pocket, it is impossible (by laws of physics) to hold her. Every week a child goes "flying". The vast majority have minor injuries or concussions which do not need to be reported. But ask a senior flight attendant how many she has seen. Or check the FAs blog for their reasons for pushing all kids be in child seats

MisterSelfish

Ha ha, and I here I was just reading a poor review of BA from VFTW. Makes sense that it would work well for a family traveling in J!

From what everyone has suggested here I think we'll give J a shot and see if we can train my daughter to sleep in a car seat. Now just have to figure out how we'll entertain her on a 12 hour flight when she won't go to bed for the first 7 hours...

DeepUnderground

Not sure how into movies and cartoons your child is yet, but my younger one usually just wants to watch the same movie over and over on repeat for hours (last flight home to the USA it was 'A bugs life'...5 times before sleeping!)

MisterSelfish

She is 14 months at this point, so we haven't really exposed her to much beyond Skype and viewing videos of herself on the phone. At 2 years and 2 months I'm hoping a cartoon can hold her interest.

On our trip to Hawaii last year I enviously watched a 4 year old veg out on an iPad - so I know it gets easier at some point. How old is your youngest and at what point was a movie able to hold his/her interest?

DeepUnderground

4 now. At 2 she would usually just sleep. 2.5/3 is when the movies became interesting. Good luck!

mlv416

13 flights already - wow! My husband and I only recently worked up the courage to take our 2 year old on his first flight to France (via connection in Amsterdam).

It went ok. But our son, like your daughter, love to sleep in his crib now and rarely sleeps in his car seat or pack n play (when we take it to my moms). I should've realized this would work against us.

I am not sure if J is biz or first class, but the main thing I would caution on, depending on your child, is to research the airline and type of aircraft you are looking to fly on. We flew KLM and went premium economy and I wouldn't do it again. The cabin is much brighter than regular economy and we would have been better off getting seats in the middle in econ in our son's case as artificial light makes it impossible for him to sleep. All depends on your daughter's sleeping habits really - but that was one thing I didn't think of.

At 2 he definitely wanted to be 'on' us and would sit in his seat a bit, but rarely. He did walk up and down the aisle (to econ and back up) a few times, but not as much as I thought he would - although we discouraged him from doing it too much.

Agreed 100% with the above post.

My son doesn't mind his car seat in the car, but doesn't sleep in it so we didn't bother. We bought the c.a.r.e.s. harness instead and it worked fine.

Although I do regret not testing and then, if it worked, using Benadryl for the night flight.

Our was the same, although we did let him watch teletubbies and elmo when he was sick before 2. That being said, the cartoons didn't really hold his interest too long. I wouldn't 'count' on it as the main source of diversion, but definitely one of.

YMMV

harishv79

Read thru most of this thread, but still very unsure of what we should do on our upcoming trip on BA CW/Business on a380 from LA, with our 2 year old. Shes very petite and small for her age. We typically lug her car seat around for domestic flights (She has taken several).

We have plans to take the train within europe (paris to amsterdam etc), and not too keen on carrying the car seat with us if we can avoid it.
But, if that is the only safe option - we just might. In that case, does CW seat work well with car seats?


Any thoughts.

BeatCal

Yes

You might consider a CARES harness for the flight which is easy to lug around with not being used and fits well. It was designed by the FA union

https://www.thegrommet.com/12-cares-cares-kids-fly-safe

For going around the cities, I would consider a backpack carrier. They keep the child safe and are much easier to handle than strollers

http://blogs.babycenter.com/products...pack-carriers/

http://www.babygearlab.com/Baby-Backpack-Reviews

In Paris, a fun place to go is to le Jardin du Luxembourg. The French love to take their babies out in elaborate carriages.

Exec_Plat

So you have booked three seats in BA CW/Business?

If you will not be in cars for most of the ground phase, Id skip a carseat. The CARES solution seems very reasonable.

In terms of "safe", you need to be rational. If the plane crashes, being in a car seat WILL improve her chance of survival. So who can argue it isnt 'safer'? But is a 1 in 1 million versus 2 in 1 million chance worth consideration? (Just WAGs, but you get the point.) Will a lap belt on her in her own seat be enough if you hit turbulence? Before you can get to her and hold her?? (In severe turbulence you will most likely only be seconds away before you would grab her anyway.) Id likely use a combo of CARES for take off and landings, and maybe bad turbulence- then a lap belt the rest of the time. Let her enjoy business!

Personally, a small fold up umbrella stroller- with backpacks for me and mom- was the best solution for us. If the kid was on my back, that would mean mom is carrying everything for all 3 of us even when it was just out sightseeing. No bueno. (Come to think of it, mom was pregnant with her brother at the time...hes 24 now. )

Finally, you see the CARES occasionally on ebay- $50 or so.

BeatCal