Good idea, birdstrike.

If the photo album could have a section that would contain head shots, and be organized alpabetically by handle, that might be another, albeit more complicated, way to identify one another.

Of course, an avatar, that can be turned on and off at will would be much simpler, and the ability to add a photo to one's profile would be the next best option.

Other than "visual clutter" (which can be turned on and off at will) does anyone have any other objections to avatars and country flags, that would be sufficient to offset the tremendous value in community building that these features would offer?

P.S. I have absolute faith that any FlyerTalker worth his/her salt, and able to finagle upgrades on an S fare, will certainly be able to figure out how to find the avatar on off switch. I have great faith in the intelligence of human beings.

Yes. Whatever restrictions you place on the images, there will be a population of FTers who will push those limits, requiring additional moderator time for police actions.

Country flags and/or airline logos (which were enabled at one time) would be quite useful.

If there is a small population of FlyerTalkers who can't help but push the limits of privilege, as I am sure there must have been with the photos in Trips reports, I am confident that the moderators will be so efficient that we will rarely get to see juicy pictures before they are disappeared.

I'm not in support of avatars, however the country flag symbol as an optional symbol may be interesting as we've got quite an international following. Regarding more or less smilies, I think we're probably covered...

What in particular, bhatnasx, do you have against an identifying, head shot, photo avatar?

Interesting points -

1) Who would do the asking? it seems you are adding a task to the moderators work without getting their buy-in? It may not be a major task, but if it does turn out to be a lot of work, even if for the simple reason that posters make mistakes uploading their photos, you are adding a workload to the moderator team without their agreement.

2) Who are the "we" who will be cropping the photos for thee membership?Neither mods nore Talkboard have the ability to go into others profiles, and I wouldn't go adding work to the tech team at IB or at FT without their consent. (See above)

3) Given the interest from some folks in avatars/photos, perhaps it would be worthwhile to contact IB and see if there are any tools/staff/input that may clarify the ease of the process. Since IB now owns Vbulletin perhaps there is data from other boards on how they work it.

Personally I am against photos for the reasons many who are against them mention - I LIKE the uncluttered interface. JMHO.

I totally agree, squeakr, that we do need to get input from IB as to what is and is not technologically possible.

As has been answered several times, if identifying avatars were to become allowed, there should be an option for turning them off and on so that folks like you, who like the uncluttered look, could have the appearance that they desire, while the folks who want to put a face with the handle are simultaneously able to do so. Of course, if the photos were only allowed in personal profiles, you would never have to look at any of them at all unless you spedifically so desired.

Just like in real life, the decision (law) to include optional photos or not include optional photos should be based on its value added to the community, not on whether or not the moderators (police) want the extra burden of enforcing the rules. I know that there are many people who would be happy to step in and serve the community if the burdens become too heavy for those folks currently so serving.

Flyertalk is chocked full of young internet computer geniuses, and I am certain we can find someone among them who would be happy to volunteer for the role of cropping avatar photos for those who have less skills.

Including them, along with the avatars, would go a long way toward fulfilling Randy's directive of making FlyerTalk more exciting (in a positive way) to the general membership.

Punki, as a new TalkBoard member, I hope you are not missing the point that most of the feedback in this thread, and the earlier avatar threads, stands against allowing avatars.

Hear, hear! Tres uncool.

Which, of course, is a problem if a given mod -- who is a member first, after all -- opts to disable avs. (I will, should av enabling come to pass. I can't handle such distraction while attending to written content.)

Thanks for seeing it from a mod's perspective, Mary2e. Policing irrelevant content is waste of volunteer time. Besides, if folks are so keen on showing off their mugs, they have ample means at their disposal already.

M2FFMW: No additional smilies, no avs and for heaven's sake no [IMG]-enabling outside of very limited forums. I should think we could generate board "excitement" in some manner far less frivolous than with visual do-dads.

ETA: I realize now that perhaps I should have limited my feedback to the single topic under consideration, which is: smilies. So, my fellow mods, feel free to delete portions of this post as you see fit. *s*

My job, birdstrike, as both a new and very old TalkBoard member, is to ask a lot of questions, get a lot of input and then analyze the input and think about it as objectively as I possibly can.

So far the only negative that has been raised against avatars, by a very small group of folks, is that they personally like the uncluttered look. Well the off/on switch handles that problem with just a flick of the switch.

We are not even talking about general avatars, which I agree can be messy and distracting, but instead about small, personal head shots (similar to driver's license pictures) of FlyerTalkers to help us identify one another when we meet in real life and remember one another when we are posting. On the positive side, being able to put a face with a name will go a long, long way toward building and strenghtening our already amazing real-life community.

Thus far in this discussion, I see one strong positive and one weak negative, which has a very easy fix.

I can't even think about making a motion until tomorrow and then I am sure that there will be weeks of discussion before we approach a vote. In the meantime, I hope that lots and lots of FlyerTalk members will weigh in with their opinions.

Those have not been the only points raised. Have you reviewed the earlier threads? Your assessment is not, objectivly, objective.

As one who also finds memory crutches useful, the avatar discussion is incomplete without considering both typical avatars, and the, IMHO, unacceptable limit to "head shots" only.

Respectfully, you have not taken the time to inform yourself fully.

Keep in mind that I like avatars and use them in other UBBs. I just do not think they are right for FlyerTalk.

IMHO, making a motion tomorrow, based on the information you present here, would be precipitous and counter-productive to your desired end result.

Thank you for your excellent advice, birdstrike. I assure you that I will not be making any TalkBoard motions tomorrow. I actually have to work.

Let me summarise, since you seem to be ignoring a lot of people's genuine concerns:
- avatars create visual clutter
- not all members will realise that there is an off-switch for avatars, just as not all members realise that there is an off-switch for signatures (and how long have we had that feature
- it's too easy to misuse/abuse the avatar feature - not a good thing for building community
- you expect moderators to be the ones to police avatars - which means not all people could turn them off. For example several of the mods who have responded, including myself, don't want to have to look at them, but would have to...
- you expect moderators to be the ones to police avatars - while ignoring their legitimate concerns about having to subjectively decide on what is and isn't allowed (your talk of automatic suspension resolved back to moderator discretion when given a direct example)
- you expect unnamed people to give of their time at your order to help people technologically unable to upload

vs

It would be nice. Seeing someone's picture would help foster community.

Sidebar - This is exactly the sort of open discussion/debate among members of the TalkBoard that I've been hoping would be available for members to read in public (vs. having it occur on a private board).

Thumbs up all around.

Carry on. [/sidebar]

Yea, what they said! ^