I really wish some of you veteran FTers would grow up. There are too many of you to name; I'm sure you'll know if the shoe fits.

If someone says something derogatory about your favorite airline(s), in which many of you seem to be so heavily emotionally invested, it is not on the the same level as someone attacking your parent, sibling, child, spouse, etc. But one would never know that from your hysterical rantings in response to even the most benign of avek00's postings.

So what if many of his postings are not grounded in fact? He is entitled to have and express his opinions. As far as the ridiculous accusations of "personal attacks" are concerned, he is by a wide margin a target rather than an instigator.

If you don't like what he has to say, ignore him! And please, get a life. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

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Vasant

Very well said. Thankfully Randy made it clear today that the constant "Avek bashing" was not welcome on Flyertalk.

Huh? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/confused.gif

ozstamps, what I meant was that all of us, including avek00, are entitled to post opinions, predictions, rumours and speculations as well as hard facts. And many of us do so. Why single him out?

If you just want hard, published, publicly available facts, we already have doc, apart from any number of Internet news sites.

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Vasant

Sadly, we do not have doc posting anything right now. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Very well put.

Sadly.

Riiiiiight. I guess you think it is "ridiculous" that avek suggested that I needed to check myself into the Betty Ford Clinic.

Or would we view that as a "positive" contribution to the community? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

I prefer to see it as a personal attack... but I'm sure if Randy sees otherwise, I'll be getting a time out like the others.

techgirl, right after I hit the Submit button, I remembered that incident. That was certainly an egregious and inexcusable personal attack on avek00's part.

However, with all due respect to you, I still maintain that he has been the "attackee" far more than the attacker.

And he's not the only scapegoat. The same treatment was accorded to fonseca33, who seems to have finally been chased off FT.

I have never met, spoken to or corresponded with either avek00 or fonseca33. I think that avek00's opinions, while articulately expressed (he writes much better than many of us, BTW), are biased and poorly reasoned. But if that were to be a disqualifier, I can think of many other FTers whose opinions are a lot more controversial and unpalatable.

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Vasant

Name them, because I can't. Avek00 would be fine if these forums where about airline business. He has research that, I don't agree with his ideas, but I respect that he has them. This however is a BB for FFers, not a discussion of airline business. While I would agree that at time we discuss the business of airlines as it relates to FFing. Avek00 does not do this and if you look at his examples of positive posts they have little or nothing to do with the main goal of points and miles. Randy, says that we are here to talk about points and miles, Avek00 is here to talk about business plans and solvency of airlines. He does so in an attacking manner. This is my problem with Avek and Randy's defense of him. At this point Avek is not a positive influence on this site, I have ask him questions to help point out that he is not currently a good candidate for talkboard. The good news for me is that if Avek and others continue to change this site, a void will be created and it will be filled by another site. The bad news is that FT is slowly becoming a much different site than when I started. It is sad for me because FT was my favorite place to come on the internet. It also occurs to me that those members that cry out for tolerance for Avek's actions are those members in forums that he is not terrorising. I think you may not have the same tune if someone like him was in your forum posting in the method and mindset of Avek00. In all this I do not blame Avek00 or do I think that he is a bad kid. He has been allow to post thousands of times and has been protected by several people here. He thinks that he is going to save FT. If he saves it, I am sure that I will not be the only member leaving.

We will either leave of our own accord or be shown the door, or at least that is what was demonstrated on Friday.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I agree that it was a nasty incident, but to CONSTANTLY rehash it isn't fair either. If all you can name is ONE incident where Avek00 crossed the line then I'd say he's a couple of 100 attacks behind some of the people that are stalking him. If I remember correctly he apologized for his remarks and openly posted that he regretted the incident. That's one apology more than the bash Avek00 gang have issued. As for the people on Friday, Randy made is extremely clear that it wasn't about Avek00, it was about a group of people wilfully derailing a thread with the sole purpose of attacking a Flyertalk member, no more and no less.

If you suspect Randy's actions were misplaced I think you should email him. If you as a moderator think it's ok to attack someone even when he posts an on-topic serious matter then I suggest you read the Flyertalk TOS.

Avek00's post on Friday could have been posted by anyone, it was a serious question, regarding flying United and was responded to with harsh and unwarrented attacks. As it wasn't the first time this behavior was seen in a thread Avek00 started Randy took the appropriate action and issued time outs in line with the TOS.

If you don't agree with them I suggest you email Randy or continue attacking Avek00 here and follow them.

That said, I think it's time this whole issue ends, the election is over tomorrow so I for one hope we can close this thread and move on. Some people here claim Avek00 isn't good for FT, I think the 10 or 15 people constantly following him around are just as distracting.

[This message has been edited by ScottC (edited 08-31-2003).]

I have been following this thread for many days and have been reticent to reply. I met and spent some time with Avek00 in Singapore in March. He is NOT the devil incarnate! Though he may be intentionally provocative and contoversal in print, in person, he is quite congenial. My perception(rightly, or wrongly) is that he is essentially pulling many of your collective chains and you are perpetuating what may be characterized as this mischief. Enough said and I will be maiking no further contribution to this subject.

Im sorry, but... what is the Betty Ford Clinic?

Gaucho,

The Betty Ford Clinic is for treatment of alcohol and drug abuse.

You can read more about it at: http://www.bettyfordcenter.org/

FewMiles..

oreck,

There are several Flyertalkers that everyone loves when they meet them. Sadly, the real world is different than the online world.

techgirl, if what you meant by being 'shown the door', was some Flyertalkers given a timeout due to their TOS violation, IMHO, they deserved it.

While many of us get upset (angry) about avek, you must admit that he provides laughter to others.