wharvey

Still not sufficient.

Now, on another front. Since the Talkboard has chosen to put in a "waiting period" to vote on motions... does the clock start again when you change the motion you are voting on? And do you notify the community again?

I am beginning to feel like House Republicans are in charge here....

bdschobel

No, the clock does not restart, and no new announcement is made. That's because, by definition, friendly amendments are minor and consistent with the original intent.

Bruce

MSPeconomist

However, the revised motion should certainly be posted, including information regarding the identity of the TB member who proposed the friendly amendment.

bdschobel

Certainly any agreed-upon changes to the motion would be noted immediately.

Bruce

Canarsie

I usually do not comment on FlyerTalk unless I have something to say — or, at least, offer some levity.

It is also difficult to comment while I am traveling. I am currently in South Africa.

We are volunteers who are human and serve TalkBoard primarily to recommend improvements to FlyerTalk based on the input and suggestions of fellow FlyerTalk members. I have nothing up my sleeve; nor do I have any nefarious plans to usurp power and conquer the world. I never did that in my greater than ten years as a moderator; and I do not intend to do that as a member of TalkBoard.

Here is how I see it: the Friendly Amendment process is to avoid having to scrap a motion just because of a minor or typographical error and be required to go through the entire process again as a result. Changing the intended purpose of a motion is not a minor change. Typing five forums when only four forums are affected in a motion is minor — especially when the specific forums are listed in the motion for all to see.

In other words — from my point of view, anyway — this is another way to try to help improve the process for recommending improvements for FlyerTalk; but suggestions and thoughts are always welcome by me...

...but I also like to keep things easy. There is no reason for anything to be difficult. If you want something, suggest it by posting it; and I promise to give it the consideration it deserves before I vote — friendly amendment or not.

nsx

Here's the latest draft. One change allows any TB member, even a No voter, to propose a friendly amendment. The other change disallows proposing friendly amendments too close to the end of the voting period, so as to limit the potential stress of getting responses from TB members who may have limited availability or connectivity.


Add item 4.B.v.
v. Any TalkBoard member may propose a friendly amendment to a motion more than 48 hours from the vote closing time and before enough yes or no votes have been achieved to either pass or not-pass the motion. If the originator of a motion, the seconder, and all Yes voters as of the time the friendly amendment was proposed agree that the amendment is both minor and desirable, the TalkBoard President shall revise the motion and ensure that public notices of the motion are also updated.

Modify item 4.C.v.
v. Once a TalkBoard member registers a selection that selection is final, except that a member voting No or Abstain may change that vote within 48 hours after a motion has been modified by friendly amendment. The TalkBoard President shall manually adjust the original vote count as necessary. If the possibility of changed votes exists due to a proposed friendly amendment, the TalkBoard President shall decide whether to defer public announcement of a "shall not pass" outcome until the end of the 48-hour period after the motion is modified.

Add item 4.D.v. and move current item 4.D.v. to become 4.D.vi.
v. When a friendly amendment is approved, the TalkBoard President shall instruct the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary to post the text of the change and a list of the approving TalkBoard members in the public TalkBoard Topics thread announcing the vote.

vi. Once voting is completed and the TalkBoard President has formally announced the results of the vote in the TalkBoard forum the Vice President/Secretary shall announce the full results of the roll call vote in
a. the public TalkBoard Topics thread announcing the vote
b. a new thread in the Town Hall forum.

bdschobel

If a No voter proposes an amendment, I'm not sure it's "friendly." Isn't it simply an amendment?

Bruce

nsx

If it wins the approval of the Yes voters, then it is friendly. Otherwise it's moot.

bdschobel

I would prefer to leave the word "friendly" out of the motion if we're going to allow "No" voters and abstainers to propose them. Substantively, there's no effect of leaving out that word. But the definition of "friendly amendment" is not then being twisted beyond recognition.

Bruce

nsx

OK:

Add item 4.B.v.
v. Any TalkBoard member may propose an amendment to a motion more than 48 hours from the vote closing time and before enough yes or no votes have been achieved to either pass or not-pass the motion. If the originator of a motion, the seconder, and all Yes voters as of the time the amendment was proposed agree that the amendment is both minor and desirable, the TalkBoard President shall revise the motion and ensure that public notices of the motion are also updated.

Modify item 4.C.v.
v. Once a TalkBoard member registers a selection that selection is final, except that a member voting No or Abstain may change that vote within 48 hours after a motion has been modified by amendment. The TalkBoard President shall manually adjust the original vote count as necessary. If the possibility of changed votes exists due to a proposed amendment, the TalkBoard President shall decide whether to defer public announcement of a "shall not pass" outcome until the end of the 48-hour period after the motion is modified.

Add item 4.D.v. and move current item 4.D.v. to become 4.D.vi.
v. When an amendment is approved, the TalkBoard President shall instruct the TalkBoard Vice President/Secretary to post the text of the change and a list of the approving TalkBoard members in the public TalkBoard Topics thread announcing the vote.

vi. Once voting is completed and the TalkBoard President has formally announced the results of the vote in the TalkBoard forum the Vice President/Secretary shall announce the full results of the roll call vote in
a. the public TalkBoard Topics thread announcing the vote
b. a new thread in the Town Hall forum.

bdschobel

Looks good to me. Want a second?

Bruce

nsx

I'll give it a day or two for people to find any holes in it. I would embarrassed to need a friendly amendment to this particular proposal!

bdschobel

Bruce

mia

I don't fully understand why the clause highlighted in red is necessary. It seems to open a basis for arguing over whether or not a change is "minor".

SkiAdcock

Agree, which is why I posted up thread that I'd like to see koko's verbiage incorporated into this.

'A minor variation in an aspect or aspects of the details of a motion which does not alter the overall intent of the motion nor raise any new issues for consideration which would otherwise warrant the submission of a new motion'.


Cheers.