Wow, you people are all fired up about so little here!

Moderators are needed here. This was more than proven during several 'events' in the past 2 years. If you weren't 'here' to witness them, or do not know to what I refer, then you have no business arguing for or against Moderators.

Moderators should move threads to more appropriate forums. Threads that are 'fringe' can hang around. FWIW, I didn't see this thread until is was moved to 'Suggestions' as 'The Buzz' has become and overcrowed dumping ground that I no longer frequent (similar to OMNI).

Goldlust, your comparisons are out of line. I am offended by your comparisons. My family was terrificly affected by the things of which you write...and to compare them to our Community here is absolutely inappropriate.

Imagine if all the energy you people spend debating Moderators could be put towards something productive...like a volunteer program?

Sincerly,

Dorian



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The Global Lounge Project - open source airline lounge listings - managed by Dorian
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel tips - acquired by nFT
The Star Alliance RTW Price Chart - by Dorian
The Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart - by Blondebomber

Rudi posted:
I learned (on this FlyerTalk Board - thank you) that the 'US constitutional freedom of speech' has nothing/little to do with the freedom of private (non-governemental) organizations/individuals freedom to put up restrictive 'regulations/limitations/rules' how to communicate and what is/should be tolerated and what not.

How ironic that Rudi learned this from FT. If the discussion from which he gleaned this knowledge were to start today, the moderator would immediately close the thread with the message "This off topic post has been moved to the Constitutional Law forum."

Its too bad the current structure will make FT a less valuable resource over time.

My thoughts exactly. Except you can already see the decline.

I, too, am frustrated by the moderators' movement of threads. I don't believe that this is what most of us had in mind when we were calling for moderators. We wanted some of the flame wars to be doused. A couple of goofballs got loose in FT and spoiled things for a lot of people, and those are theinstances where there was a public outcry for FT moderators.

On the other hand, I have on numerous occasions reminded posters to post in the "correct" forum. One of the great attributes of FT is the organization of the board and the archives. If you don't believe that, go take a look at one of the other FF boards, www.frequentflier.com . While there often is interesting information posted there, it becomes useless in a matter of hours because there is absolutely no organization to the board. Everything is posted in one forum.

So, the movement of threads and the organization of the board are necessary evils. A more sophisticated board attracts more sophisticated users and better information, and ultimately benefits all of us.

But perhaps there is a middle ground, at least with respect to the Buzz topics, which seems to draw the most fire. Perhaps the definition of Miles Buzz could be tweaked so that it was more of "FlyerTalk Buzz", which is how I always thought of it anyway.

Rudi,

My admiration for you never cease growing.

Toxa

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

cactuspete said:

"...go take a look at one of the other FF boards, www.frequentflier.com . While there often is interesting information posted there, it becomes useless in a matter of hours because there is absolutely no organization to the board. Everything is posted in one forum.

...Perhaps the definition of Miles Buzz could be tweaked so that it was more of "FlyerTalk Buzz", which is how I always thought of it anyway."

CP, I think these are great comments/suggestions.

I hope people don't feel that I am or have been advocating anarchy and the absence of any structure.

In fact, I have said on a couple of occasions that establishing the “ideal” organization/structure for this community (as if such a Platonic ideal actually exists?) is probably more of an art than a science, something which inherently evolves based on trial and error.

I view what we’re going thru as part of that process. My only true frustration is with the suggestion that there’s something wrong with providing feedback/suggestions on how this is working and therefore the stifling of the discussion itself. This is done both directly and by some of the harsh/insulting/demeaning words that have been directed towards some of the posters who have challenged the current status quo.

CP, I also applaud your suggestion of expanding the definition of MilesBuzz to a more general Buzz…

Somewhat more controversially, perhaps, I would also encourage FT “management” to lighten up on overall topic enforcement, because the "market" seems to do a good job of taking care of itself here...but would ask moderators to edit offensive posts (even here, there probably will be some disagreement over the definition of "offensive"), and to otherwise help instill civility when the tone starts to disintegrate.

My presumption is that very few people really intend to be mean-spirited in their responses, and unintentionally lapse into something which is overly aggressive/hostile…to the extent I have done any of that I certainly apologize…I would think most of us would accept/welcome a response from a moderator, as an experienced independent observer, highlighting disturbing elements of a post and asking if the poster really meant to go that far, or advising that the way something was presented could be construed as a personal attack…?

[This message has been edited by nologic (edited 08-17-2001).]

I'm a relatively new user to FT, and this is my (humble) opinion. It seems to me a large part of the problem is not so much whether there are locked threads, but why there are so many "off-topic" posts. I think if this issue was dealt with it would help reduce the number of "off-topic" (and hence locked) posts.

From what I see and have read in this forum, it seems that a large part of the reason as to why there are off topic posts is because people only read one or two of their favorite forums when they log into FT. Everyone has their favorite and most often visted forums. I do too. I am quite guilty of often logging in and only checking MilesBuzz, Community, SPAM, AA & NW. However, I do make a point to spend some time in the "less popular" forums. Have you ever read a post in the "Women Travlers" section of FT Travel? How about the FT Airports forum? Have you helped someone find a good restaurant in your city in FT Dining?

I think the community as a whole would be all the more richer if everyone made an effort to spend a little time in some of the "less popular" forums. They exist because there is a need for information under those forums/topics. Who knows, maybe you'll be able to help someone avoid a tourist trap, find a good restaurant, or determine which airport has the best lounge. I just want to personally challenge everyone to spend a little time in the "less popular" areas. Yes, we all have limited time, and don't have ability to visit every board every time (I'm not saying that anyone should), but lets all try to expand where we visit just a bit. Once a week (or more, if you visit FT daily), try to visit one new forum you've never visited before, or one you don't visit very often.

Also, I think it is great to discuss topics such as this. Only through discussion and feedback and constructive criticism (which is different than complaining) can improvement take place. However, I think it is important that whether we agree with them or think they are doing a good job or not, we support our moderators. Personally, it's not a job I would want to touch with a 39 1/2 ft pole, but they are just doing their jobs, whether we like it or not.

Lyss710 said:

"...it seems that a large part of the reason as to why there are off topic posts is because people only read one or two of their favorite forums when they log into FT... Have you ever read a post in the "Women Travlers" section of FT Travel?"

Great observation: you can try and force-change behavior; but, I think that is fighting an uphill battle. Personally, I spend a fair amount of time bouncing around too...but:

1. The majority of people won't spend the time...that's just a fact, or at least I believe it to be a fact, and we can wait a year until it becomes a fact;

2. If the above is true, are we better off as a community...when we have a question and it gets short attention because it's parked in a less trafficked place than otherwise could be the case?

I guess some believe that we can/will change enough people's behavior over time so that this won't be a practical problem. And, for many, this issue doesn't bother them, because they are confident they will get their own questions/issues answered, and the "clutter" is more offensive to them. In fact, one person said he/she isn't looking to have questions answered, and the implication (I may have it wrong so please correct me) is/was that he/she only wants to deal and interact with people that participate in this close-knit way (please don't infer anything but a descriptive intent here).

So, what is “value” on FT?

We have a lot of people with a lot of different interests and definition of “value”...which is what makes it so hard to discern what works best.

Still, I have a hard time coming down on the side of less information for the most number people.

No!

I will not be shut up by opressed subjects of the regime that has turned them into such slave spirited souls.

It certainly is sad and ironic. One of my first if not THE 1st post was in support of RUDI. ): I did not know him at the time, yet based on his posts I supported him. I do not believe that he knows me well enough personally to make such a dam*ing opinion of me. I am merely standing up for civil rights on this (so far reasonably liberal) board. I am really disappointed that there is so much racist element along with the "blind non-Aryan" element who believe that censorship is in their best interest.

Censorship is not welcome anywhere in the free world, including on FlyerTalk.


This message has been edited due to Flyertalk editing a common word such as dam*ning. Da*n censorship!

[This message has been edited by Spider (edited 08-18-2001).]

Not being personal, IMHO Moderator1 appears to invite resentment after resentment from various members for a number of his/her actions in deleting/shutting up/censoring threads and use of intemperate language. I have no personal knowledge of Moderator 1 and hear only good words about him/her from established members of FT. I suggest that Moderator 2 takes over his/her role until the heat dies down.

All right, let's get this straight, threads have been moved because they have been posted in the wrong or inappropriate forums. They are still open for discussion, so go discuss away in those threads if you want. FlyerTalk.com's policy is to move such mis-posted topics, and that's the way it is, and will continue to be until any such notice from Randy Petersen.

Those of you who disagree, thank you for your comments and suggestions, they are appreciated, welcomed, and desired. Furthermore they are being assesed by the people around here who make the REAL decisions, not by me or any other moderator.

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burkey
FlyerTalk Miles Moderator
MilesBuzz
American Airlines
[email protected]
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FlyerTalk Miles
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Spider, nice to have you back to spice things up a bit!

For the record, my "Would you stop it already" comment was not an entreaty for you to stop posting your opinions altogether. In fact, I've found your posts to be quite entertaining, to say the least.

Rather, it was in reference to your constant (mis)use of the First Amendment/"freedom of speech" argument, which we seem to have established has no legal basis in fact as it applies to FlyerTalk.

This "slave spirited soul" (whatever that is) who, I might add, is not feeling very oppressed right now, thanks you for listening! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif I really love your sense of humor! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Keep it up.