Online Petition to Marriott - Recognize SPG LTP with MR LTPP
Apr 23, 2018, 4:13 pm
#76
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: SPG Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 168
There will be some equalizer announced that retains loyalty from both sides, I'm confident of it.
Both SPG and MR legacy LTP were difficult to earn for different reasons. SPG required 10 years of platinum status and 500 nights, most of which were true butt-in-bed room nights. MR required 750 nights, some of which was a bit easier to attain through credit card, etc., but also required 2MM points accrued. Neither was an easy feat, and both demonstrated loyalty that should be celebrated, and sought to retain.
An example of a true equalizer would have been to announce that both sides' LTP are eligible for new LTPP if they had. 1. 750 nights between programs (a MR requirement, and only fair given the 2-3 years of encouraged cross-company stays after the merger was announced), 2. 10 years of platinum across programs (an SPG requirement, same reason), and 3. 2MM points equalized across programs (with SPG historical points multiplied by three and then added to MR points).
But because Marriott already announced to the MR LTP that they will be grandfathered as LTPP, they understandably cannot (and should not) retract, so that leaves an unfortunately more complicated and cumbersome decision making process as to how they should proceed.
As I've said before, and I'm no company insider, but I just don't believe there are that many SPG LTP when compared with MR LTP, and I believe it's a prudent business decision to grandfather them as LTPP. Both programs' LTP were hard to earn for different reasons. I'd personally far rather see what will only be the most minor of increases in upgrade competition and make things right on both sides by allowing all historical LTPs to receive LTPP.
Not grandfathering SPG LTP to LTPP could also conceivably create an exodus of high spend customers, because SPG LTP have already been told they will receive LTP in the new program. Without LTPP, unless they stay 75 nights each year to earn PP, there's nothing encouraging them to remain loyal to Marriott other than habit.
Conversely, another chain (Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) would in a heartbeat match the status on an annual basis for any dissatisfied current MR/SPG platinum (including all SPG LTP), and then the customer would merely need to continue to stay at that level in order to become ingrained into that program, and then potentially even have the benefits, once they eventually retire, of two big chains' lifetime status. There were even a couple of mentions of a senior sales exec at another big chain making a play to try to poach dissatisfied MR/SPG folks by offering them a lifetime status match. Who knows about the accuracy of that report though.
I think that most in both the SPG and MR camps truly want our Marriott to be the best combined company that it can be, and will remain loyal if treated fairly. As I've said before, I believe Marriott will do the right thing, and I believe that the right thing, given the totality of current variables, is to grandfather the LTP from both sides, everyone accept that minor mistakes were made, everyone forgive those mistakes, and let's all move on.
Both SPG and MR legacy LTP were difficult to earn for different reasons. SPG required 10 years of platinum status and 500 nights, most of which were true butt-in-bed room nights. MR required 750 nights, some of which was a bit easier to attain through credit card, etc., but also required 2MM points accrued. Neither was an easy feat, and both demonstrated loyalty that should be celebrated, and sought to retain.
An example of a true equalizer would have been to announce that both sides' LTP are eligible for new LTPP if they had. 1. 750 nights between programs (a MR requirement, and only fair given the 2-3 years of encouraged cross-company stays after the merger was announced), 2. 10 years of platinum across programs (an SPG requirement, same reason), and 3. 2MM points equalized across programs (with SPG historical points multiplied by three and then added to MR points).
But because Marriott already announced to the MR LTP that they will be grandfathered as LTPP, they understandably cannot (and should not) retract, so that leaves an unfortunately more complicated and cumbersome decision making process as to how they should proceed.
As I've said before, and I'm no company insider, but I just don't believe there are that many SPG LTP when compared with MR LTP, and I believe it's a prudent business decision to grandfather them as LTPP. Both programs' LTP were hard to earn for different reasons. I'd personally far rather see what will only be the most minor of increases in upgrade competition and make things right on both sides by allowing all historical LTPs to receive LTPP.
Not grandfathering SPG LTP to LTPP could also conceivably create an exodus of high spend customers, because SPG LTP have already been told they will receive LTP in the new program. Without LTPP, unless they stay 75 nights each year to earn PP, there's nothing encouraging them to remain loyal to Marriott other than habit.
Conversely, another chain (Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) would in a heartbeat match the status on an annual basis for any dissatisfied current MR/SPG platinum (including all SPG LTP), and then the customer would merely need to continue to stay at that level in order to become ingrained into that program, and then potentially even have the benefits, once they eventually retire, of two big chains' lifetime status. There were even a couple of mentions of a senior sales exec at another big chain making a play to try to poach dissatisfied MR/SPG folks by offering them a lifetime status match. Who knows about the accuracy of that report though.
I think that most in both the SPG and MR camps truly want our Marriott to be the best combined company that it can be, and will remain loyal if treated fairly. As I've said before, I believe Marriott will do the right thing, and I believe that the right thing, given the totality of current variables, is to grandfather the LTP from both sides, everyone accept that minor mistakes were made, everyone forgive those mistakes, and let's all move on.
Apr 23, 2018, 6:27 pm
#77
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: Lifetime Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 87
In countries that aren't ruled with iron firsts / dictators, the population bonds together for things that they mutually care about. In this case with SPG being swallowed up by MR we are at a critical juncture of delivering a message that as SPG customers we are NOT happy with the announcement of SPG LTP not being allowed LTPP now or ever in the future.
I nor any of the loyal SPG members want to defect to HIlton, IHG or other loyalty programs. We love our brands and the loyalty program. The SPG loyalty program is going away and it is exciting as I think we all are excited about the future, although lamenting losing SPG. With this in mind we want to deliver a message that while excited by the future we have a BIG issues with the fact that LTPP is never going to be allowed to be awarded to us.
Now is the time to act and we respectfully want MR to allow SPG LTP to be recognized now ideally with MR LTPP. At the very least we would like a pathway to earn this status which will acknowledge our past loyalty while solidifying our plans to remain loyal as we would be treated fairly.
Marriott please listen to us, SPG was our past, but please treat us equally to ensure Marriott is in our future.
Please reply with I" AGREE" which will signify our collective request.
You , me, we us, together. ^
I nor any of the loyal SPG members want to defect to HIlton, IHG or other loyalty programs. We love our brands and the loyalty program. The SPG loyalty program is going away and it is exciting as I think we all are excited about the future, although lamenting losing SPG. With this in mind we want to deliver a message that while excited by the future we have a BIG issues with the fact that LTPP is never going to be allowed to be awarded to us.
Now is the time to act and we respectfully want MR to allow SPG LTP to be recognized now ideally with MR LTPP. At the very least we would like a pathway to earn this status which will acknowledge our past loyalty while solidifying our plans to remain loyal as we would be treated fairly.
Marriott please listen to us, SPG was our past, but please treat us equally to ensure Marriott is in our future.
Please reply with I" AGREE" which will signify our collective request.
You , me, we us, together. ^
I AGREE
Apr 23, 2018, 7:31 pm
#78
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YOW
Programs: AC-SE100K, AC-3MM, Marriott- LT Titanium, SPG RIP
Posts: 2,959
I Agree
Apr 23, 2018, 7:42 pm
#79
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY Metro
Programs: SPG Titanium, United Premier 1K
Posts: 1,601
I agree.
Apr 23, 2018, 8:25 pm
#80
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Virginia
Programs: Hyatt / SPG
Posts: 101
I agree!
I agree!
Apr 23, 2018, 8:49 pm
#81
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,038
Well, the thing is, at some point you have to draw a line and some people won't be happy. Because:
- now MR LTP get LTPP to match what they were promised. SPG LTP don't get it. Let's say, to be fair, SPG LTP with +750 SPG night get LTPP to be fair.
- then SPG LTP with +750 nights in both program don't get it. They complain because, well they stay in Marriott hotels during the previous year, so Marriott give them LTPP
- then SPG LTP with 500-750 nights complain, because, they did not get any night credits for having the SPG Amex during all that time and Marriott memebrs got 15 nights with Chase. So Marriott give LTPP to all SPG LTP
- then SPG member with +500 nights but without LTP (because they did not get 10 years of SPG Plat) complain, because, Marriott members did not have the time requirement. So Marriott give them LTPP
- then Marriott members complain because, SPG did not impose a spending limit, so they give LTPP to everyone with +500 nights
Then with that many LTPP, all the other complain because they is not any more upgraded room for anyone without +500 nights done before Dec 31, 2018.
- now MR LTP get LTPP to match what they were promised. SPG LTP don't get it. Let's say, to be fair, SPG LTP with +750 SPG night get LTPP to be fair.
- then SPG LTP with +750 nights in both program don't get it. They complain because, well they stay in Marriott hotels during the previous year, so Marriott give them LTPP
- then SPG LTP with 500-750 nights complain, because, they did not get any night credits for having the SPG Amex during all that time and Marriott memebrs got 15 nights with Chase. So Marriott give LTPP to all SPG LTP
- then SPG member with +500 nights but without LTP (because they did not get 10 years of SPG Plat) complain, because, Marriott members did not have the time requirement. So Marriott give them LTPP
- then Marriott members complain because, SPG did not impose a spending limit, so they give LTPP to everyone with +500 nights
Then with that many LTPP, all the other complain because they is not any more upgraded room for anyone without +500 nights done before Dec 31, 2018.
(1) MR had a set of loyalty measuring variables: nights and point accumulation
(2) SPG had another set of loyalty measuring variables: nights and years as elite
(3) You can easily infer these variables from your SPG or MR account
With these two set of loyalty measuring variables you can express your SPG loyalty in terms of the MR variables (and your MR loyalty in terms if the SPG variables)
Now what MAR has done is to ignore the fact that you can perform this simple comparison.
When you in do this comparison a SPG member clearly see that if his/hers loyalty would be expressed in terms of the MR loyalty variables the reward for the exact same account history would be much higher.
This lead to the feeling of unfair treatment and in the context of being consistent in measuring and rewarding past loyalty it Is actually objectively unfair.
The mistake MAR has done is to think that SPG members cant do this trivial comparison and that we would be content with the fact that the combined program is adapting the current SPG loyalty variables. Newsflash humans do not work like that. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and SPG loyalty variables was imposed on MR members and only SPG 850+ with 10Y plat got LTPP and MR PLT 850+/10Yplat/3M spend got LTP ... that would also be unfair with the same reasoning
Let's be clear this procedure is to establish the initial position in the new program (prior to any merging of any accounts etc.), i.e. the procedure to map past loyalty to a specific program into the new program. Hence the need to be perceived to be fair if you value those customers loyalty to those legacy SPG brands you currently own, if you don't or the potential badwill is just marginal to the cost of addressing the feeling of unfair treatment then MAR will continue do what they are doing.
If MAR is interested in addressing the feeling of unfair treatment MAR needs to establish a least common denominator between the programs. One way of achieving this is to letting SPG LT accounts match nights and point accumulation against the current MR thresholds. In that way no SPG member can complain that they got unfair treatment, no MR members has no reason to feel upset after all SPG got matched using their own LT criteria.
You can make the same argument with SPG Gold / MR Gold MR Plt as well
Last edited by X-ON; Apr 24, 2018 at 1:54 am
Apr 23, 2018, 9:38 pm
#82
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: FLL
Programs: UA: 1K MM, Marriott Ambassador, Platinum IHG. Diamond: Hilton. Silver: Delta & Hyatt
Posts: 1,366
I agree. Need to have some way to combine Status. Lifetime Gold in MR and Lifetime Platinum in SPG. Need a way to get to LTPP in new program.
Apr 23, 2018, 9:54 pm
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: check swarm
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, SPG/Bonvoid LT Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, $tarbucks Titanium
Posts: 14,404
I'm all for 1,000+ night SPG people getting LTPP, and I think due to feedback such as this petition we will get it, but my real issue is the LTPP status level and what it offers. It's seems a bit weak in terms of rewards. Sure you get a 2nd choice beneft and 25% more points, but no Your24 or upgrade priority over Plat50?
Apr 23, 2018, 9:57 pm
#84
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: SPG, MR, WOH, HH, IHG
Posts: 43
I don't think a lot of people object grandfathering someone with 750+ SPG nights and 667+k Starpoint to the new LTPP, but I do think grandfathering SPG LTP to the new LTPP would create some more problem.
Marriott LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTPP
Nights : 750 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 2,000,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Marriott LTG requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 1,600,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Starwood LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night)
Spending : None
Years of Elite : 10 yrs Plat (either 25+ stays or 50+ nights)
If you compare Aa. and Ab., it seems very unfair to Ab, since they both have met the same criteria and the only difference was where they meet the criteria.
Aa. Current Marriott LTP
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 2m+ MR point accrual
- satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
Ab. Current SPG LTP who met Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
But if you grandfathered Ab. to the new LTPP, what about this man? He did satisfied Marriott LTP criteria, just like the Aa. and Ab. did. The only problem was he did not met Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties, but since you already gave the new LTPP to Ab. who doesn't meet the criteria on Marriott properties, you should give the new LTPP to Ac. as well.
Ac. Current SPG LTP+Marriott LTG who met Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
- 500+ nights on SPG & 500+ nights on Marriott & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 2m+ MR-equivalent point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
However, bumping up Ac. to the new LTPP would create whole lot more problem. It's a fact that Ac. did not hold Marriott LTP status (even though he met the criteria on unified properties), but you gave him the new LTPP anyway. That means you do not grant the new LTPP status to the holder of LTP status, rather you grant the new LTPP status to someone who met the LTP criteria on unified properties. If you grant the new LTPP on the basis of whether he meet the LTP criteria or not(regardless of whether he actually hold the LTP status), what about this man? No reason to not give the new LTPP to Ad.
Ad. No lifetime status on either chain but met Marriott LTP on unified properties
- 249 nights on SPG & 750+ nights on Marriott & less than 5 yrs SPG elite & 400k Starpoint & 1m MR point accrual
- satisfied nothing on SPG AND satisfied nothing on Marriott AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
Furthermore, grandfathering SPG LTP who doesn't meet Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties to the new LTPP would create new sets of problem. Compare this two man.
Ba. Current SPG LTP who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 500-749 nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accural
or
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667-k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied nothing or Marriott LTS or Marriott LTG criteria on SPG properties.
Bb. Current Marriott LTG who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 500-749 nights on Marriott properties & 2.0m+ MR point accrual
or
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual (this even includes, 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10+ yrs Marriott Plat & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual)
- satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties
If you grant the new LTPP to Ba., there is no reason not to grant the new LTPP to Bb. as well. But if you do that, it would effectively become an example of giving the new LTPP to whom fell short of Marriott LTP. If you give the new LTPP to someone who only meet SPG LTP criteria and doesn't meet Marriott LTP criteria, what about this man?
Bc. Current Marriott LTS who meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.6m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTS criteria on Marriott properties
You should give him too. And the list can go further.
Bd. Someone who doesn't have any kind of Marriott lifetime status but meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.2m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied any kind of Marriott criteria on Marriott properties
That Bd. is exactly the kind of person that Marriott didn't want to grant any lifetime status. Hence, they set up the point accrual hurdle, to stop people getting lifetime status by holding 8 x $100 meeting per year for 10 years. But if you grant anyone who satisfied any lifetime plat criteria on any properties, they should be getting the lifetime platinum premier too.
There has to be a line and there always will be unfairly treated or unsatisfied customers no matter where the line is drawn.
Marriott LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTPP
Nights : 750 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 2,000,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Marriott LTG requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 1,600,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Starwood LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night)
Spending : None
Years of Elite : 10 yrs Plat (either 25+ stays or 50+ nights)
If you compare Aa. and Ab., it seems very unfair to Ab, since they both have met the same criteria and the only difference was where they meet the criteria.
Aa. Current Marriott LTP
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 2m+ MR point accrual
- satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
Ab. Current SPG LTP who met Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
But if you grandfathered Ab. to the new LTPP, what about this man? He did satisfied Marriott LTP criteria, just like the Aa. and Ab. did. The only problem was he did not met Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties, but since you already gave the new LTPP to Ab. who doesn't meet the criteria on Marriott properties, you should give the new LTPP to Ac. as well.
Ac. Current SPG LTP+Marriott LTG who met Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
- 500+ nights on SPG & 500+ nights on Marriott & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 2m+ MR-equivalent point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
However, bumping up Ac. to the new LTPP would create whole lot more problem. It's a fact that Ac. did not hold Marriott LTP status (even though he met the criteria on unified properties), but you gave him the new LTPP anyway. That means you do not grant the new LTPP status to the holder of LTP status, rather you grant the new LTPP status to someone who met the LTP criteria on unified properties. If you grant the new LTPP on the basis of whether he meet the LTP criteria or not(regardless of whether he actually hold the LTP status), what about this man? No reason to not give the new LTPP to Ad.
Ad. No lifetime status on either chain but met Marriott LTP on unified properties
- 249 nights on SPG & 750+ nights on Marriott & less than 5 yrs SPG elite & 400k Starpoint & 1m MR point accrual
- satisfied nothing on SPG AND satisfied nothing on Marriott AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
Furthermore, grandfathering SPG LTP who doesn't meet Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties to the new LTPP would create new sets of problem. Compare this two man.
Ba. Current SPG LTP who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 500-749 nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accural
or
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667-k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied nothing or Marriott LTS or Marriott LTG criteria on SPG properties.
Bb. Current Marriott LTG who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 500-749 nights on Marriott properties & 2.0m+ MR point accrual
or
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual (this even includes, 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10+ yrs Marriott Plat & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual)
- satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties
If you grant the new LTPP to Ba., there is no reason not to grant the new LTPP to Bb. as well. But if you do that, it would effectively become an example of giving the new LTPP to whom fell short of Marriott LTP. If you give the new LTPP to someone who only meet SPG LTP criteria and doesn't meet Marriott LTP criteria, what about this man?
Bc. Current Marriott LTS who meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.6m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTS criteria on Marriott properties
You should give him too. And the list can go further.
Bd. Someone who doesn't have any kind of Marriott lifetime status but meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.2m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied any kind of Marriott criteria on Marriott properties
That Bd. is exactly the kind of person that Marriott didn't want to grant any lifetime status. Hence, they set up the point accrual hurdle, to stop people getting lifetime status by holding 8 x $100 meeting per year for 10 years. But if you grant anyone who satisfied any lifetime plat criteria on any properties, they should be getting the lifetime platinum premier too.
There has to be a line and there always will be unfairly treated or unsatisfied customers no matter where the line is drawn.
Last edited by epiahtles; Apr 23, 2018 at 10:16 pm
Apr 23, 2018, 10:16 pm
#85
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,038
I don't think a lot of people object grandfathering someone with 750+ SPG nights and 667+k Starpoint to the new LTPP, but I do think grandfathering SPG LTP to the new LTPP would create some more problem.
Marriott LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTPP
Nights : 750 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 2,000,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Marriott LTG requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 1,600,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Starwood LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night)
Spending : None
Years of Elite : 10 yrs Plat (either 25+ stays or 50+ nights)
If you compare Aa. and Ab., it seems very unfair to Ab, since they both have met the same criteria and the only difference was where they meet the criteria.
Aa. Current Marriott LTP
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 2m+ MR point accrual
- satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
Ab. Current SPG LTP who met Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
But if you grandfathered Ab. to the new LTPP, what about this man? He did satisfied Marriott LTP criteria, just like the Aa. and Ab. did. The only problem was he did not met Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties, but since you already gave the new LTPP to Ab. who doesn't meet the criteria on Marriott properties, you should give the new LTPP to Ac. as well.
Ac. Current SPG LTP+Marriott LTG who met Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
- 500+ nights on SPG & 500+ nights on Marriott & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 2m+ MR-equivalent point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
However, bumping up Ac. to the new LTPP would create whole lot more problem. It's a fact that Ac. did not hold Marriott LTP status (even though he met the criteria on unified properties), but you gave him the new LTPP anyway. That means you do not grant the new LTPP status to the holder of LTP status, rather you grant the new LTPP status to someone who met the LTP criteria on unified properties. If you grant the new LTPP on the basis of whether he meet the LTP criteria or not(regardless of whether he actually hold the LTP status), what about this man? No reason to not give the new LTPP to Ad.
Ad. No lifetime status on either chain but met Marriott LTP on unified properties
- 249 nights on SPG & 750+ nights on Marriott & less than 5 yrs SPG elite & 400k Starpoint & 1m MR point accrual
- satisfied nothing on SPG AND satisfied nothing on Marriott AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
Furthermore, grandfathering SPG LTP who doesn't meet Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties to the new LTPP would create new sets of problem. Compare this two man.
Ba. Current SPG LTP who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 500-749 nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accural
or
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667-k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied nothing or Marriott LTS or Marriott LTG criteria on SPG properties.
Bb. Current Marriott LTG who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 500-749 nights on Marriott properties & 2.0m+ MR point accrual
or
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual (this even includes, 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10+ yrs Marriott Plat & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual)
- satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties
If you grant the new LTPP to Ba., there is no reason not to grant the new LTPP to Bb. as well. But it's effectively become an example of giving the new LTPP to whom fell short of Marriott LTP. If you give LTPP to someone who doesn't meet LTP, what about this man?
Bc. Current Marriott LTG who meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 2.0m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties
You should give him too. And the list goes on.
Bd. Current Marriott LTS who meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.6m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTS criteria on Marriott properties
Be. Someone who doesn't have any kind of Marriott lifetime status but meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.2m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied any kind of Marriott criteria on Marriott properties
That Be. is exactly the kind of person that Marriott didn't want to give any lifetime status. Hence, they set up the point accrual hurdle, to stop people getting lifetime status by holding 8 x $100 meeting per year for 10 years. But if you grant anyone who satisfied any lifetime plat criteria on any properties, they should be getting the lifetime platinum premier too.
There has to be a line and there will always be unfairly treated customers no matter where the line is drawn.
Marriott LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTPP
Nights : 750 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 2,000,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Marriott LTG requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night, meeting night, credit card night, etc)
Spending : 1,600,000 MR Point (butt point, meeting point, credit card point, gift point, etc)
Years of Elite : None
Starwood LTP requirement - to be grandfathered into new LTP
Nights : 500 (butt night)
Spending : None
Years of Elite : 10 yrs Plat (either 25+ stays or 50+ nights)
If you compare Aa. and Ab., it seems very unfair to Ab, since they both have met the same criteria and the only difference was where they meet the criteria.
Aa. Current Marriott LTP
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 2m+ MR point accrual
- satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
Ab. Current SPG LTP who met Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
But if you grandfathered Ab. to the new LTPP, what about this man? He did satisfied Marriott LTP criteria, just like the Aa. and Ab. did. The only problem was he did not met Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties, but since you already gave the new LTPP to Ab. who doesn't meet the criteria on Marriott properties, you should give the new LTPP to Ac. as well.
Ac. Current SPG LTP+Marriott LTG who met Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
- 500+ nights on SPG & 500+ nights on Marriott & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 2m+ MR-equivalent point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
However, bumping up Ac. to the new LTPP would create whole lot more problem. It's a fact that Ac. did not hold Marriott LTP status (even though he met the criteria on unified properties), but you gave him the new LTPP anyway. That means you do not grant the new LTPP status to the holder of LTP status, rather you grant the new LTPP status to someone who met the LTP criteria on unified properties. If you grant the new LTPP on the basis of whether he meet the LTP criteria or not(regardless of whether he actually hold the LTP status), what about this man? No reason to not give the new LTPP to Ad.
Ad. No lifetime status on either chain but met Marriott LTP on unified properties
- 249 nights on SPG & 750+ nights on Marriott & less than 5 yrs SPG elite & 400k Starpoint & 1m MR point accrual
- satisfied nothing on SPG AND satisfied nothing on Marriott AND satisfied Marriott LTP criteria on unified properties
Furthermore, grandfathering SPG LTP who doesn't meet Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties to the new LTPP would create new sets of problem. Compare this two man.
Ba. Current SPG LTP who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on SPG properties
- 500-749 nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667+k Starpoint accural
or
- 750+ nights on SPG properties & 10+ yrs SPG Plat & 667-k Starpoint accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on SPG properties AND satisfied nothing or Marriott LTS or Marriott LTG criteria on SPG properties.
Bb. Current Marriott LTG who meet only one of the Marriott LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 500-749 nights on Marriott properties & 2.0m+ MR point accrual
or
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual (this even includes, 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10+ yrs Marriott Plat & 1.6-2.0m MR point accrual)
- satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties
If you grant the new LTPP to Ba., there is no reason not to grant the new LTPP to Bb. as well. But it's effectively become an example of giving the new LTPP to whom fell short of Marriott LTP. If you give LTPP to someone who doesn't meet LTP, what about this man?
Bc. Current Marriott LTG who meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 2.0m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTG criteria on Marriott properties
You should give him too. And the list goes on.
Bd. Current Marriott LTS who meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.6m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied Marriott LTS criteria on Marriott properties
Be. Someone who doesn't have any kind of Marriott lifetime status but meet SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties
- 750+ nights on Marriott properties & 10 yrs+ Marriott Plat & 1.2m- MR point accrual
- satisfied SPG LTP criteria on Marriott properties AND satisfied any kind of Marriott criteria on Marriott properties
That Be. is exactly the kind of person that Marriott didn't want to give any lifetime status. Hence, they set up the point accrual hurdle, to stop people getting lifetime status by holding 8 x $100 meeting per year for 10 years. But if you grant anyone who satisfied any lifetime plat criteria on any properties, they should be getting the lifetime platinum premier too.
There has to be a line and there will always be unfairly treated customers no matter where the line is drawn.
(1) Match LT SPG account with respect to LT nights and point accumulation to corresponding MR tier => You get the initial LT tier in the new program based on your matched LT MR tier or your orginal LT SPG tier whichever is higher => LTG, LTP or LTPP
(2) All merged balances of #nights and #elite years is addressed by the rules in the merged program
Except for the fact that you can't get LTPP within the new merged program,which ideally should be addressed, I understand that; to whom is this unfair?
Apr 23, 2018, 10:16 pm
#86
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Bonvoy :Ambassador , ALL :Diamond, Skywards :Silver, Krisflyer :Silver
Posts: 2,808
I would think its better for Marriott to open the LTPP tier
Set the requirements and let current members aim for that PP lifetime tier
Unless Marriott plan to remove the LTPP tier by attrition
Set the requirements and let current members aim for that PP lifetime tier
Unless Marriott plan to remove the LTPP tier by attrition
Apr 23, 2018, 10:35 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,969
Part of their mistake was the overly generous initial match to SPG member's advantage. Now, for LT, it puts SPG members at a disadvantage.
I totally see why SOME SPG LTPs should be put into LTPP in the new program. Hopefully they will make some adjustments. Strange why they did not consider this as they know SPG members are rabid
My experience with Marriott is that if they believe the logic is right and has the number they want, they don't really care how loudly people complain.
I totally see why SOME SPG LTPs should be put into LTPP in the new program. Hopefully they will make some adjustments. Strange why they did not consider this as they know SPG members are rabid
My experience with Marriott is that if they believe the logic is right and has the number they want, they don't really care how loudly people complain.
Apr 23, 2018, 10:58 pm
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
I AGREE.
(1,725 SPG nights, 13+ years at 75+ nights and of those, at least 10 were at 100+ nights)
(1,725 SPG nights, 13+ years at 75+ nights and of those, at least 10 were at 100+ nights)
Apr 23, 2018, 11:04 pm
#89
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: SPG, MR, WOH, HH, IHG
Posts: 43
There is no need for things to be so complicated ... as I mentioned in my previous post two steps:
(1) Match LT SPG account with respect to LT nights and point accumulation to corresponding MR tier => You get the initial LT tier in the new program based on your matched LT MR tier or your orginal LT SPG tier whichever is higher => LTG, LTP or LTPP
(2) All merged balances of #nights and #elite years is addressed by the rules in the merged program
Except for the fact that you can't get LTPP within the new merged program,which ideally should be addressed, I understand that; to whom is this unfair?
(1) Match LT SPG account with respect to LT nights and point accumulation to corresponding MR tier => You get the initial LT tier in the new program based on your matched LT MR tier or your orginal LT SPG tier whichever is higher => LTG, LTP or LTPP
(2) All merged balances of #nights and #elite years is addressed by the rules in the merged program
Except for the fact that you can't get LTPP within the new merged program,which ideally should be addressed, I understand that; to whom is this unfair?
A. Current SPG LTP with 700 nights on SPG properties, 20 yrs of 25+ stays SPG Plat, 4 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTP
B. Current SPG LTG with 750 nights on SPG properties, 5 yrs SPG Plat, 1 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTPP
C. Current SPG Nothing with 750 nights on SPG properties, 2 yrs SPG Plat, 1 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTPP
D. Current Marriott LTP with 750 nights on Marriott properties with zero butt night, 1 year Marriott Plat, 2 mil MR point - becomes the new LTPP
E. Current SPG Nothing and Marriott Nothing with combined 750 nights (375 each), 1 year of elite for each program, 334k Starpoint and 1 mil MR point - becomes the new LTPP
There will be always someone who feels the rule is unfair no matter where the line is drawn.
Apr 24, 2018, 12:37 am
#90
Join Date: May 2003
Location: LCY
Programs: SQ Krisflyer, QR Privilege Club, MB LT Plt (1K+ nights thx MB)
Posts: 1,038
In that case, compare these.
A. Current SPG LTP with 700 nights on SPG properties, 20 yrs of 25+ stays SPG Plat, 4 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTP
B. Current SPG LTG with 750 nights on SPG properties, 5 yrs SPG Plat, 1 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTPP
C. Current SPG Nothing with 750 nights on SPG properties, 2 yrs SPG Plat, 1 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTPP
D. Current Marriott LTP with 750 nights on Marriott properties with zero butt night, 1 year Marriott Plat, 2 mil MR point - becomes the new LTPP
E. Current SPG Nothing and Marriott Nothing with combined 750 nights (375 each), 1 year of elite for each program, 334k Starpoint and 1 mil MR point - becomes the new LTPP
There will be always someone who feels the rule is unfair no matter where the line is drawn.
A. Current SPG LTP with 700 nights on SPG properties, 20 yrs of 25+ stays SPG Plat, 4 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTP
B. Current SPG LTG with 750 nights on SPG properties, 5 yrs SPG Plat, 1 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTPP
C. Current SPG Nothing with 750 nights on SPG properties, 2 yrs SPG Plat, 1 mil SPG point - becomes the new LTPP
D. Current Marriott LTP with 750 nights on Marriott properties with zero butt night, 1 year Marriott Plat, 2 mil MR point - becomes the new LTPP
E. Current SPG Nothing and Marriott Nothing with combined 750 nights (375 each), 1 year of elite for each program, 334k Starpoint and 1 mil MR point - becomes the new LTPP
There will be always someone who feels the rule is unfair no matter where the line is drawn.
Why would he/she expect to be granted something, i.e LT MR PLT, for which he/she not qualify for? If he/she would be given LT MR PLT it would be unfair against LT MR GLD with 700 nights and 2M points.
You need to condition on the rules set in place, i.e. the function of the of the loyalty measuring variables, otherwize the analysis becomes pointless.
You can always create cases where people is close to a threshold perceive him/herself as being unfairly treated by the definition of thresholds themselfs (the function of the loyalty measuring variables) that is a very different objection than that given current established definitions of thresholds and loyalty measuring variables not being equally treated. It is apples and oranges.
The question that needs to be answered is: "What would your LT activity at SPG have yielded in the MR LT program"
Why is this question relevant? It is because the LT MR are getting initial LT tiers based on #night s and #points in the merged program, not #night #elite years, and hence for practical purposed there exists two ways of measuring your past loyalty, both ways should be open to both MR and SPG members.
Imagine only LTPP would have designated to SPG LTP with 10Y Elite and #800 nights and no MR LTP was never considered for this tier, since #years was never a loyalty measuring variable in the LT MR program... both MR LTP and MR LT GLD with #800 nights and 10Y Elite could have qualified ... then I am convinced the LT MR GLD/PLT would have argued that they get the same treatment as the SPG LT members.
Last edited by X-ON; Apr 24, 2018 at 3:26 am