Guest sues Starwood; says man entered her locked hotel room (Hotel Kamp in Helsinki)
Jan 10, 2012, 8:19 am
#1
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Guest sues Starwood; says man entered her locked hotel room (Hotel Kamp in Helsinki)
If the claims are true about this incident at the Hotel Kamp in Helsinki, this is a frightening story, especially for single female travelers.
http://travel.usatoday.com/hotels/po...99452/1?csp=tf
Edited to add: Oops - I now see there is comment in the master thread for this property.
"Alleging negligence, the suit claims that the man gained entry to Fournier's locked room by telling the front desk a lie -- that he was her husband and had been locked out of his room."
Edited to add: Oops - I now see there is comment in the master thread for this property.
Last edited by Fredd; Jan 10, 2012 at 8:22 am Reason: existing master thread
Jan 10, 2012, 9:45 am
#2
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Perhaps the moderators can consolidate the posts in the master thread with this new thread.
But I don't understand why you think this is a "frightening story, especially for single female travelers."
Is there not a "single female traveler" (or any traveler, for that matter) who reads flyertalk who is not aware that this sort of unusual incident could occur at a hotel? Much like front desks ocassionally screw up and give room keys to already occupied rooms. That's why you should throw the deadbolt, right?
I would be frightened if it were Starwood's policy to hand out room keys to whomever asked for them, but that is clearly not their policy and it is obvious that Starwood is both embarrassed and concerned that somehow the individual did get a room key in this instance.
The "good news" here is that nothing particularly horrible happened after the apparently serious breach of hotel security. As reported in the article, the woman realized there was this intruder in her bed (who apparently started touching her) and bolted from the room after grabbing a robe. There is no doubt in my mind that she is entitled to compensation from the hotel for this extremely unpleasant incident -- and that the intruder would also seem liable for damages -- but there is little need for a celebrity USA lawyer to get involved.
But I don't understand why you think this is a "frightening story, especially for single female travelers."
Is there not a "single female traveler" (or any traveler, for that matter) who reads flyertalk who is not aware that this sort of unusual incident could occur at a hotel? Much like front desks ocassionally screw up and give room keys to already occupied rooms. That's why you should throw the deadbolt, right?
I would be frightened if it were Starwood's policy to hand out room keys to whomever asked for them, but that is clearly not their policy and it is obvious that Starwood is both embarrassed and concerned that somehow the individual did get a room key in this instance.
The "good news" here is that nothing particularly horrible happened after the apparently serious breach of hotel security. As reported in the article, the woman realized there was this intruder in her bed (who apparently started touching her) and bolted from the room after grabbing a robe. There is no doubt in my mind that she is entitled to compensation from the hotel for this extremely unpleasant incident -- and that the intruder would also seem liable for damages -- but there is little need for a celebrity USA lawyer to get involved.
Jan 10, 2012, 9:50 am
#3
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Perhaps the moderators can consolidate the posts in the master thread with this new thread.
But I don't understand why you think this is a "frightening story, especially for single female travelers."
Is there not a "single female traveler" (or any traveler, for that matter) who reads flyertalk who is not aware that this sort of unusual incident could occur at a hotel? Much like front desks ocassionally screw up and give room keys to already occupied rooms. That's why you should throw the deadbolt, right?
I would be frightened if it were Starwood's policy to hand out room keys to whomever asked for them, but that is clearly not their policy and it is obvious that Starwood is both embarrassed and concerned that somehow the individual did get a room key in this instance.
The "good news" here is that nothing particularly horrible happened after the apparently serious breach of hotel security. As reported in the article, the woman realized there was this intruder in her bed (who apparently started touching her) and bolted from the room after grabbing a robe. There is no doubt in my mind that she is entitled to compensation from the hotel for this extremely unpleasant incident -- and that the intruder would also seem liable for damages -- but there is little need for a celebrity USA lawyer to get involved.
But I don't understand why you think this is a "frightening story, especially for single female travelers."
Is there not a "single female traveler" (or any traveler, for that matter) who reads flyertalk who is not aware that this sort of unusual incident could occur at a hotel? Much like front desks ocassionally screw up and give room keys to already occupied rooms. That's why you should throw the deadbolt, right?
I would be frightened if it were Starwood's policy to hand out room keys to whomever asked for them, but that is clearly not their policy and it is obvious that Starwood is both embarrassed and concerned that somehow the individual did get a room key in this instance.
The "good news" here is that nothing particularly horrible happened after the apparently serious breach of hotel security. As reported in the article, the woman realized there was this intruder in her bed (who apparently started touching her) and bolted from the room after grabbing a robe. There is no doubt in my mind that she is entitled to compensation from the hotel for this extremely unpleasant incident -- and that the intruder would also seem liable for damages -- but there is little need for a celebrity USA lawyer to get involved.
Mike
Jan 10, 2012, 10:05 am
#4
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I didn't know Domique Strauss-Khan was in Finland recently?!
Seriously though, this just doesn't add up. Sorry if I play the devil's advocate here, but she meets a stranger in the hotel lobby, she leaves her door unlocked and went to bed in the nude where she was later raped which later turned out to be groped and got away. Ultimately though, no mention of criminal charges or police involved, only a celebrity lawyer (Gloria Allred) who is notorious for male bashing and being a real money grubber. And the victim was so traumatized that she had to quit her job as well? I don't know, does not seem like a strong case unless the drunken stranger was a staff member.
However, there are some things to take away from this incident. Traveling alone, women should take possibly more precautions than men. The door should have been dead bolted, she should have contacted hotel security and await police and press charges. And how did he know which room she was in anyways if he supposedly posing as the husband??
Seriously though, this just doesn't add up. Sorry if I play the devil's advocate here, but she meets a stranger in the hotel lobby, she leaves her door unlocked and went to bed in the nude where she was later raped which later turned out to be groped and got away. Ultimately though, no mention of criminal charges or police involved, only a celebrity lawyer (Gloria Allred) who is notorious for male bashing and being a real money grubber. And the victim was so traumatized that she had to quit her job as well? I don't know, does not seem like a strong case unless the drunken stranger was a staff member.
However, there are some things to take away from this incident. Traveling alone, women should take possibly more precautions than men. The door should have been dead bolted, she should have contacted hotel security and await police and press charges. And how did he know which room she was in anyways if he supposedly posing as the husband??
Jan 10, 2012, 10:08 am
#5
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While I agree with much of what you said, I have to disagree with the "nothing particularly horrible happened." I've never been a sexual assault victim and I'm not a single female, but having a stranger who had been hitting on you mysteriously slide into bed next to you sounds pretty horrible to me. Assuming her story is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, it was horrible enough for her to have to quit her job and move.
Mrs. Fredd never forgot a mid 60s incident in a NYC hotel when a man tried to break into her room.
Just a few months ago we empathized with a solo female traveler who headed back to the front desk of a property (SPG but I can't think where offhand) after we'd all checked in at some late hour once she realized she had a ground-floor room.
Although the outcome could been a lot worse for the plaintiff, she alleges the impact of what did occur has negatively impacted her life. That's for the jury, as would be a defense argument that she should have used whatever deadbolt is installed at that property.
Yes, IMO it's a frightening "there-but-for-the-grace-of-God" story for single female travelers. YMMV.
Jan 10, 2012, 10:36 am
#6
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Recently I have reminded myself to use the latch from the inside and not leave anything to chances.
Jan 10, 2012, 10:58 am
#7
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I didn't know Domique Strauss-Khan was in Finland recently?!
Seriously though, this just doesn't add up. Sorry if I play the devil's advocate here, but she meets a stranger in the hotel lobby, she leaves her door unlocked and went to bed in the nude where she was later raped which later turned out to be groped and got away. Ultimately though, no mention of criminal charges or police involved, only a celebrity lawyer (Gloria Allred) who is notorious for male bashing and being a real money grubber. And the victim was so traumatized that she had to quit her job as well? I don't know, does not seem like a strong case unless the drunken stranger was a staff member.
However, there are some things to take away from this incident. Traveling alone, women should take possibly more precautions than men. The door should have been dead bolted, she should have contacted hotel security and await police and press charges. And how did he know which room she was in anyways if he supposedly posing as the husband??
Seriously though, this just doesn't add up. Sorry if I play the devil's advocate here, but she meets a stranger in the hotel lobby, she leaves her door unlocked and went to bed in the nude where she was later raped which later turned out to be groped and got away. Ultimately though, no mention of criminal charges or police involved, only a celebrity lawyer (Gloria Allred) who is notorious for male bashing and being a real money grubber. And the victim was so traumatized that she had to quit her job as well? I don't know, does not seem like a strong case unless the drunken stranger was a staff member.
However, there are some things to take away from this incident. Traveling alone, women should take possibly more precautions than men. The door should have been dead bolted, she should have contacted hotel security and await police and press charges. And how did he know which room she was in anyways if he supposedly posing as the husband??
No disagreement on the lawyer, however.
Mike
Jan 10, 2012, 11:14 am
#8
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The previous poster's description of the incident - "there was this intruder in her bed (who apparently started touching her)" - is IMHO rather innocuous.
Mrs. Fredd never forgot a mid 60s incident in a NYC hotel when a man tried to break into her room.
Just a few months ago we empathized with a solo female traveler who headed back to the front desk of a property (SPG but I can't think where offhand) after we'd all checked in at some late hour once she realized she had a ground-floor room.
Although the outcome could been a lot worse for the plaintiff, she alleges the impact of what did occur has negatively impacted her life. That's for the jury, as would be a defense argument that she should have used whatever deadbolt is installed at that property.
Yes, IMO it's a frightening "there-but-for-the-grace-of-God" story for single female travelers. YMMV.
Mrs. Fredd never forgot a mid 60s incident in a NYC hotel when a man tried to break into her room.
Just a few months ago we empathized with a solo female traveler who headed back to the front desk of a property (SPG but I can't think where offhand) after we'd all checked in at some late hour once she realized she had a ground-floor room.
Although the outcome could been a lot worse for the plaintiff, she alleges the impact of what did occur has negatively impacted her life. That's for the jury, as would be a defense argument that she should have used whatever deadbolt is installed at that property.
Yes, IMO it's a frightening "there-but-for-the-grace-of-God" story for single female travelers. YMMV.
I remember in law school (I'm not currently a lawyer) learning about the "egg shell plaintiff" rule. Here's a quick summary of that legal doctrine:
http://www.unifiedinjury.com/content...plaintiff-rule
In this case, the guest is basically claiming that her entire personal and professional life was destroyed by this incident (which she got around to telling Starwood about 5 months after it happened).
I suppose it's possible. People react differently to different situations. But in the world I live in, this seems like a very unfortunate incident being blown completely out of proportion. I find it very difficult that she was able to achieved the level of professional success she reportedly did but completely fell apart emotionally after a guy crawled into her hotel bed and touched her.
Jan 10, 2012, 12:44 pm
#9
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Hiring Gloria Allred and filing against Starwood in NY is pretty telling IMO.
And I'm certainly not dismissing the horrific incident by any means. It's appalling.
-David
And I'm certainly not dismissing the horrific incident by any means. It's appalling.
-David
Jan 10, 2012, 12:47 pm
#10
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You must have read a different story than I did. In the link here, she made it clear to the stranger that she was not interested, the door was locked (He got in by lying to the front desk.), there's nothing about her being naked and she never claimed to be raped. There was no arrest because the front desk didn't call the police and both she and the alleged perp left Finland within hours.
No disagreement on the lawyer, however.
Mike
No disagreement on the lawyer, however.
Mike
She did make it clear she was not interested but the article said he got into bed and groped her naked body. And as for locked, I mean deadbolt.
In the end though, none of us were there and we may never know what really took place, but to request an undetermined sum of money an entire year later does not sound right.
Jan 10, 2012, 1:04 pm
#11
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You must have read a different story than I did. In the link here, she made it clear to the stranger that she was not interested, the door was locked (He got in by lying to the front desk.), there's nothing about her being naked and she never claimed to be raped. There was no arrest because the front desk didn't call the police and both she and the alleged perp left Finland within hours.
No disagreement on the lawyer, however.
Mike
No disagreement on the lawyer, however.
Mike
Jan 10, 2012, 1:04 pm
#12
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can a keycard open a door that has had its knob/lever turned from the inside?
i always, and by always I mean absolutely 100% of the time without exception, turn that knob/lever AND use the secondary device (that allows you to open the door a tiny bit).
Nobody is going to just waltz into my room unannounced.
I simply cannot understand or sympathize with anyone who doesn't use the means they are provided with to improve their security. I'm not denying that the hotel was negligent in providing a key to a stranger but had she done as i do, the incident would not have occurred, period.
i always, and by always I mean absolutely 100% of the time without exception, turn that knob/lever AND use the secondary device (that allows you to open the door a tiny bit).
Nobody is going to just waltz into my room unannounced.
I simply cannot understand or sympathize with anyone who doesn't use the means they are provided with to improve their security. I'm not denying that the hotel was negligent in providing a key to a stranger but had she done as i do, the incident would not have occurred, period.
Jan 10, 2012, 1:14 pm
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It was a different source http://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-sues-...1#.TwyTJ6VSQos
She did make it clear she was not interested but the article said he got into bed and groped her naked body. And as for locked, I mean deadbolt.
In the end though, none of us were there and we may never know what really took place, but to request an undetermined sum of money an entire year later does not sound right.
She did make it clear she was not interested but the article said he got into bed and groped her naked body. And as for locked, I mean deadbolt.
In the end though, none of us were there and we may never know what really took place, but to request an undetermined sum of money an entire year later does not sound right.
Mike
Jan 10, 2012, 2:16 pm
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While she should have used the interior deadbolt / chain lock, Starwood clearly failed to protect her and (under their admission) violated their own corporate policy by giving out a key to the victim's room without checking for identification. They should be liable for negligence, but the damages should be quite low given that (fortunately) the woman was not physically injured by the incident.
Jan 10, 2012, 3:17 pm
#15
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I do not know about the Hotel Kamp, but not all hotels have dead bolt and chain devices and even if the door is equipped with these, they do not always work. This is more common ovseas than in the USA IME, just as foreign hotels tend to not see a problem with loudly announcing the room number, even in contexts where it is clear that one will be away from the room or where numerous drunks are within hearing range.
Even in New Jersey, I once had an emphatic discussion with the manager on duty at a nonStarwood hotel about the fact that there was no functioning lock whatsoever on my room door. He did not see a problem with my showering and then leaving for dinner, saying that the key card lock would maybe be fixed that evening and probably the next day and claiming that no other rooms were available as I watched numerous people check in.
I had a similar discussion with the manager of a very elegant hotel in Scotland when I was given a connecting room and discovered that there was no way to lock the connecting door. He claimed that the people in the other room were nice and I did not need to worry. Maintenance was too busy to fix it right away and again, no other rooms were available during the Edinburo festival.
In Italy, a hotel manager entered my room in the middle of the night. The door was not equipped with any sort of chain and the passkey apparently opened the deadbolt. Also in Italy, a waiter entered without permission with a room service breakfast that I did not order just at the start of room service hours and behaved inappropriately.
Please do not blame the victim by saying that deadbolts and chains should have been used.
Even in New Jersey, I once had an emphatic discussion with the manager on duty at a nonStarwood hotel about the fact that there was no functioning lock whatsoever on my room door. He did not see a problem with my showering and then leaving for dinner, saying that the key card lock would maybe be fixed that evening and probably the next day and claiming that no other rooms were available as I watched numerous people check in.
I had a similar discussion with the manager of a very elegant hotel in Scotland when I was given a connecting room and discovered that there was no way to lock the connecting door. He claimed that the people in the other room were nice and I did not need to worry. Maintenance was too busy to fix it right away and again, no other rooms were available during the Edinburo festival.
In Italy, a hotel manager entered my room in the middle of the night. The door was not equipped with any sort of chain and the passkey apparently opened the deadbolt. Also in Italy, a waiter entered without permission with a room service breakfast that I did not order just at the start of room service hours and behaved inappropriately.
Please do not blame the victim by saying that deadbolts and chains should have been used.