ec336

This sounds like a newbie question, so I apologize in advance, but I have been pondering it ever since my Qualiflyer points have been transferred to Miles and More. Here goes:

Being a United MP member, I now see that there are significant discrepancies in the number of miles required using M&M vs. MP. I know that mileage redemption levels vary from airline to airline, but within one alliance, it just seems like a big deviation. Everything: Europe domestic, Europe-NA, NA-Oz, etc. Just looking at the * award charts makes this obvious. So here is my question:

WHY are Lufthansa award tickets so much more expensive? It seems just as much work to get M&M as it is MP miles. MP at least has a bunch of partner bonuses, but M&M has fewer for us North American residents. Are M&M miles worth that much more than MP, or is MP simply cheap, and a good value? Any other reason I am missing?

Thanks for explaining this mystery to me (which might be more obvious that I think).

kawoh

Each program has it's benefits and drawbacks. There are plenty of reasons why M&M is better than UA, just as there are some great reasons why UA is better than M&M.

Many folks who haven't been guided to the wisdom of FT or really don't check details more carefully, which could even be some very frequent flyers who just don't have the time to bother, could end up lucking out on the wrong program to suit their needs.

M&M - yes awards are more expensive, but did you know if you qualify as a Senator you'll get 25% bonus on all *A flights on the base mileage? Did you know in Biz/First you could earn a 200% or 300% bonus? rather than a meagre 25% or 50% bonus but more on UA metal... handy if you don't fly UA that often... Did you know you can get 50% off priced companion awards on LH? That LH also have "Fly Smart" awards which can be even cheaper than UA's awards...

Also, until recently tiered LH SEN's could get lounge access to UA's RCC's in north america on domestic flights, which saved you having to pay for UA RCC membership... each program in the alliance has it's own benefits and drawbacks, it's really to your own personal situation and needs that suit you. Both programs are amognst the better *A programs out there ...

Rudi

I am with kawoh.

Also - LH's main competitors are other European carriers, not other StarAlliance-partners. And UA's main competitors are other American carriers.

ph-ndr

One difference that struck me as odd as a Norwegian EB-member:

1) Norway-NCE in C on SK as an award will strip you 60k points. Most likely in a worn MD-80/90

2) SIN-NRT in F on SQ as an award (with EB) will stip you 60k points. Most likely on a SkySuite equipped 744.

Not only is the first one only a quarter of the length of the second one, but I probably don't have to explain the differences in product?

Now there's an odd thing even within one program.

Al B

Why is LH more consistently profitable than UA ??!!

transpac

Just a point of clarification:

With UA Mileage Plus Premier Executive and 1K's really earn 200% total program miles flying in paid Y, 225% in paid C and 250% in paid F. (But just 100% Status, or Elite Qualifying Miles in any paid class of service). So on the earning side LH isn't all that far ahead of UA. A balance of paid Y and C probably earns more total program miles with MP.

My favorite "difference":

North America to South Asia in First Class via Europe (LH to Europe/LH or SQ to SIN)

- with UA MP = 120,000 miles
- with LH M&M = 240,000 miles (requires a 3 region award)

* you may able to swing this award for 180,000 miles on LH M&M if you fly via the Pacific although I have no direct experience with this scenario.

Rudi

A balance of paid Y and C probably earns more total program miles with MP.

not on short-UA (and most other) flights where miles&more credits at least: eco 1'000 (UA 500), business 2'000 (UA 750) and first (also first on 2-class UA flights) 3'000 (UA 1'000) miles; or for StarGold status holders it is eco LH 1'250 / UA 1'000, business LH 2'500 / UA 1'250, first LH 3'750 / UA 1'500

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 07-01-2003).]

BlondeBomber

With UA Mileage Plus Premier Executive and 1K's really earn 200% total program miles flying in paid Y, 225% in paid C and 250% in paid F.
-yes but only on UA and LH flights!

My mileage earning comparisons show my LH Miles and More and Air Canada Aeroplan mileage earning to be running neck and neck while UA Mileage Plus would have netted me half to 2/3 the miles. I fly mostly AC and LH with a little UA, BD, SK and MX thrown in.

You really have to fly on UA a lot to make the 200% work.

With AC and LH programs you get the elite bonus on ALL Star Alliance flights.

There's no way that a mix of flying on Star Airlines would earn more total program miles with MP.

BlondeBomber

see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum82/HTML/000055.html for my mileage comparison for the type of flying I do.

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BlondeBomber's Star Lounge Guide
BlondeBomber's Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart 2003
BlondeBomber's Hilton HHonors Rewards Hotel Levels (1 MB!)
BlondeBomber's Starwood Hotel Levels

transpac

Agreed, in my case with ~ 90,000 flight miles on UA in Economy I earned 180,000 total program miles. If I had credited those to LH I would have earned 112,500 total program miles. Not an insignificant difference. (And lost out on dozens 500 mile upgrades, and 4 {to date} Confirmed North American Upgrades.)

My other ~ 65,000 flight miles in paid C and F on LH, SQ, SK, TG, NH and even UA have been credited to my LH M&M account, resulting in ~ 180,000 total program miles (and status miles). These miles might have netted me approx. 90,000 total program miles with UA.

Both programs are quite good. (I am sooo glad I found FT or else I wouldn't have known the benefits of LH.) However for me LH's awards are ~ 35% more expensive (this is a SWAG on my part) than UA awards. Balancing that is my feeling the LH miles are very much more 'secure' than UA miles.