edlin303

Hey guys, hopefully this isn't too dumb of a question, but the FAQ doesn't quite cover my scenario. What I am wondering is if a refundable fare HAS to be refunded to the purchaser, or if it can become a credit for future use. The reason I ask is my company buys all my tickets, but if a cheaper flight were to appear online, it would be nice if I could get the credit from canceling and apply it to the replacement ticket. I could also then take advantage of online bonuses such as double credit offers assuming I can get a replacement flight for the same price.

This would also be handy if I have a multi-week business trip, since I could cancel my middle return flights and fly my fiance out to see me instead.

Thanks for all the useful info on the site. I just got my first ever CP, and will need all of your help to maintain it in the future. I wish I had found the site sooner.

curbcrusher

First, welcome to FlyerTalk, edlin303!

A refundable fare does not have to be refunded to the purchaser. It can be kept with WN as a credit and reused later by anyone that knows the PNR and purchaser's name.

That said, what you propose does not strike me as ethical. Does your company know that you intend to cancel the refundable fares they are booking for you, rebook non-refundable fares using those funds and pocket the difference?

zzyzx

Let us leave ethical thing for Eric himself. He can simply want to save money for his company, but if he pockets the difference, then there could be potential a big problem

formeraa

Excuse Me!?!

Perhaps the OP's company pays for fiances to go on business trips, but I certainly have not worked for a company with such a policy.

I believe that it's entirely appropriate to bring up ethics, if the OP is proposing something that could be interpreted as being unethical at best, illegal at worst. He may not realize that he could be terminated for violating the company's travel policy. I would check the policy before doing something like this.

edlin303

Maybe I should clarify, my company has little interest in finding the cheapest fare. They will not allow me to book ding fares for business travel, and would rather pay 2x the amount than to allow me to book it myself. However, I didn't intend to indicate that I would "pocket the difference" by switching from refundable to non-refundable. I am talking about re-booking the same fare class just so I can a.) get online bonus credits when available and b.) track my flights online (which I cannot if our travel agent books them) while not losing my flexibility with a lower class fare. If the fare happens to be lower, well then I guess I have an ethical dilemma. If I do nothing WN makes the extra money and I potentially lose out on maximizing reward credits. If I change and get a credit, there is no way for me to do so and get the money back to my company.

I guess I would be curious how people feel this compares to someone who gets a per-diem for dining, but eats at cheap restaurants to pocket the most money. It seems to be in similar ethical territory, in that they are benefiting from the company being willing to spend a certain amount on a meal. In this scenario, they chose to spend $x on a flight. If I can get that flight for $20 cheaper, is it better to give the money to WN or myself?

As for my flying my fiance out, I disagree about your ethics concern. If my company is willing to pay to fly me home for weekends, what is the difference if they pay that amount, but my fiance instead comes to visit me for the weekend instead? Either way the company is willing to pay a RT fare because I am out of town for multiple weeks. I would do all of this with the blessing of my boss. The concern is that that company has no way to book travel for her, so I am trying to find out if I can do it after the fact without causing a headache for my travel agent.

As for this being illegal, that's what I'm asking here I guess. I can't fathom it being illegal in any sense, but if it is illegal or against WN rules, I certainly wouldn't do it. As for my company rules, I also would not risk my job over it. If I did this, it would be with their blessing.

edlin303

Thanks, even though most of this thread doesn't actually make me feel welcome.

Thank you for answering the technical question I asked.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I never proposed changing fare types. I am talking about a lower fare for the same ticket. If that is refundable, I need to keep it refundable in case my schedule changes.

nsx

If you stick with refundable fares as I believe you posted, then a phone call to WN after your trip is complete will get the remaining money refunded to the company.

edlin303

Good to know. I suspect my TA will keep the credit themselves, as they did with a Delta fare I canceled last year. But it sounds like that way would at least be acceptable by all of the ethics experts here and I can at least track my flights online then.

expert7700

there are two other things to consider:

1) in order to cancel a flight you need the exact credit card holder's name that was used during the fare purchase. If you have a large travel dept you might not be privy to that information, or know the way they wrote their name (full 1st name, middle initial, etc).

2) the minute you cancel the flight the person who received the ORIGINAL confirmation email will now receive a 'cancelled itinerary' email, regardless of if you selected a refund or ticketless funds for future travel. That's a big security measure for southwest, because if people got their account hacked in they would find the flight was cancelled hopefully well before the hackers were able to use the $$ for new travel.

edlin303

1. Ok, that's some useful info. Since it is billed to our travel agent, I assume it is not a credit card payment, but either way that probably means it won't work.

2. That doesn't bother me since I'm not as people suggested trying to defraud my company. I would just let the TA know I might be modifying my arrangements.

Thanks for not automatically attacking me for trying to defraud my company without gathering more info. It makes me feel a bit more welcome here. After the first few replies I was considering going back to lurking again.

curbcrusher

Questioning what you've proposed is not an attack and does not mean you are not welcome here.

nsx

He wasn't attacking you, cc.

caimakale

If his RR account is targeted with the triple credits, he would have to log in and purchase the flight from his RR account. But if a travel agent booked it, he would only get 1 credit for the flight. If he cancels, and rebooks the exact same flight, exact same fare, he can at least get the extra two credits per flight, no harm no foul. I don't see anything unethical or immoral about it.

SAPMAN

Too bad the Co. wont let him book himself - as it give much more flexibility for changes, etc.

As to ethics, it is each to his own. Many things done on Flyertalk are condoned, even encouraged, but not ethical. ie. it is clearly stated on most FF programs that even trading FF miles is not allowed (such as trading some miles for a Hilton Honors stay). Yet it is the main purpose of one of the Forums here.

I, personally, always thought a Traveler on Co. business should reuse FF miles for future Co. travel -- after all, the Co. purchased the orig. tickets that come with the residual benefit. I did NOT do that as I would likely be the only one that did, and my ethics are not that high. But if one gets a free RT after 8 RT flights, then the Company could save about 13% of the travel budget.

Many feel the FF miles are a perk because they have to travel. I do not. If all the FF programs were stopped, would all these people demand more pay?

Illegal, I do not think so.

caimakale

My company has a section in the Travel Guidelines of our policies and procedures manual that states all "points" earned while traveling can be kept and used by employees for personal use.