pinniped

DCA and LGA *are* the small airports in those two markets. (Well, of the airports that could reasonably be considered Washington or New York City commercial airports.)

I'll never pretend to understand airline economics or how they came to this decision, but I welcome the addition of the ORD option for Chicago.

alggag

I'm Houston based so it will be nice to see IAH come back. I flew IAH-DAL a few times back in the day but it wasn't very useful as DAL was the only route served from IAH and this was still when the the Wright Amendment was in full force meaning it was not a useful connecting point. HOU is physically closer to me but traffic can be a hot mess during the rush hours making IAH easier to get to during those times.

ElmhurstNick

Stunned to see ORD. But before COVID, they were at capacity at MDW. So it makes sense to claim some space in the new terminal setup (OW/*A international flights will leave T5 and be replaced by DL and others). This lets them fight harder on routes like CHI-DCA and CHI-LAX while saving peak gates at MDW, then they can use the off-peak times for leisure market flights.

I do wonder what this means for MKE, because Southwest does draw there from Lake County IL.

N830MH

Right! They've still fighting for. They wants more gate space at DAL. It just only 20 gates, but not enough gate space. Other airlines wants more gate space. They wants more than 40 gates.

NoStressHere

Until they release what cities they will fly to... it is hard to say how much of a "big deal" this is...right?

ryw

Might as well start speculating about ORD service! I suppose it depends on how many gates and how large of a presence they'll want to have there.

But I would suspect at a minimum they would want to connect to a WN focus city in the east (BWI), at least one in the mountain west (DEN or LAS or PHX), and west coast mid-con routes (OAK and LAX). And/or they could focus on the business market with NYC (LGA) and DC (DCA). Maybe a leisure market with routes to Florida too?

It'll be interesting to see how much they want to directly compete against AA and UA out of ORD.

toomanybooks

Very interesting.

By train for me it’s 30 minutes less to MDW, but if ORD opens up for WN, maybe there is some savings.

WN is coming after AA/UA for sure.

ElmhurstNick

AA should be relatively happy that WN is going to muddy up the T5 gate situation as opposed to letting DL/AF/KL/KE climb up to 10 gates unimpeded. The last thing AA needs is DL deciding that they want to start flying LAX or MIA, or God forbid LHR (either themselves or using VS).

UA may be in for a business travel battle with WN, especially as fewer people will have enough travel to qualify for mid-tier or better elite on UA. At that point, A-List on WN doesn't seem so bad.
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returnoftheyeti

Both United and AA forums have post on this. They may hate WN, but what other airline can make an route announcement and get EVERYONE on Flyertalk discussing it.

Boraxo

More great news from WN (following the MIA and PSP announcements)!

I really, really despise MDW, it's a pit with unpredictable TSA lines and a long ride on the El or through traffic. I find ORD far more convenient as I'm usually staying north of downtown and can easily hop onto the blue line without a transfer. Would love to see OAK-ORD which will help to keep a lid on fares here. IAH makes a lot of sense too as it is far more convenient for those who live North of downtown Houston including the Woodlands, etc. Early afternoon OAK-IAH and an evening return flight IAH-OAK would certainly be attractive to business travelers.

To be sure I generally avoid WN for 3-4 hour mid-con flights due to the lack of food service and legroom. But the new routes increase the potential value of CPs, at least for me. And with middle seats blocked WN is currently a safer option than UA.

Speaking for myself but I don't think UA elites universally hate WN. I view WN as a nice complement which provides great short-haul service and provides a decent mid-con alternative (if not the most comfortable one) while often keeping a lid on fares. I don't find WN fares or service particularly attractive for my vacation flights to Hawaii and Mexico but apparently it works for others.

No, the carriers I really resent are ULCCs like Spirit, et al. which drive down the quality of service for everyone. If anything WN forces the legacy carriers to up their game.

From what I see there is nobody flying for business right now except my colleagues who work 30-day rotational shifts. It is almost 100% leisure travel these days. That is why you see WN adding MIA, PSP etc. That said I am sure the carriers are all positioning themselves to grab market share when business travel returns, but that won't really kick in before a vaccine is distributed.

ElmhurstNick

ORD won't start until the new T2 is done and carriers swap to and from T5, so if business travel isn't at least partially back in 9-12 months, it's likely that they won't really start.

MikeW_ORD

Hmm. They’re redoing and expanding TSA lines at MDW now so it should be better. But I’ve never had a problem there with pre-check.

I live in Chicago and the Orange Line is much faster from airport to the Loop than the Blue line. I much prefer using the Orange, even though I live in a near north side neighborhood.

N830MH

Or you can take Blue Line from Clark/Lake station to O'Hare Airport station. It's very easy ride. No worry about traffic problem. Too many traffic! You can take CTA on Blue Line.

Yes, new MDW security checkpoint expansion is opening. They already adding more security lanes. No need to worry about long lines at old TSA checkpoints anymore.

I won't say that. I bet they are looking route announcement at ORD & IAH. Keep speculation!!

toomanybooks

I have never understood the disdain for MDW. I find it much faster and more convenient to navigate than ORD. From the Loop the Orange Line is faster than the Blue Line, so people traveling here for business likely would prefer it. Parking if necessary is easier for me.

Where you live of course makes a big difference.

A lounge would be nice.

pinniped

I've always been fine with Midway. Flying there next weekend.

That said, ORD is probably best for business travelers. The Orange Line vs. Blue Line difference isn't bad for a downtown worker either way, but the hour+ difference in a car for a north/northwest suburb worker is huge. And there's a ton of business travel out that direction with all of the big corporate HQ's in the area.

I spent years working in Schaumburg, flying M/F every week, in the RR 1.0 era where I would have been racking up free tickets and CP off of cheap MCI-MDW flights. But I just couldn't bring myself to spend all those hours in traffic...I aligned with AA instead. I have no regrets - this was back when AA Plat was great and I still have LT Gold because of it - but had WN been at ORD I probably would have been flying them every week instead.